How to deal with overgrown kiwi

BobVance · July 25, 2016, 4:33pm

I wasn’t able to finish pruning my my hardy kiwis this spring. It warmed up enough to get their sap moving and they leak like a river if you prune them at that point. So, now I’m dealing with very overgrown vines.

I was able to go into a kiwi cave:

One of them is so large that it is bending the support poles (pic is after I cut it back from strangling my Court Pendu Plat apple):

I’m not sure if it is the lack of dormant pruning, or the spring frosts (though long before the kiwi’s flower), but even the vine which had a lot of fruit last year (Geneva), isn’t carrying any now. I did get some dormant pruning in on Issai, Cordofolia, and Fortyniner, but only Issai has any fruit. That isn’t too surprising, as 49er has only had a bit in the past and Cordofolia has flowered, but not fruited before. Issai has fruited since year #2, so it sets fruit no matter what…

So, now the question- do I go in there hacking now, or in the late winter? Either way, there is a massive amount to remove.

warmwxrules · July 25, 2016, 4:36pm

I hacked my jungle of kiwi about 2 weeks ago…they were everywhere. I just cut them back to a single vine each… i might rip them out completely.

JesseS · July 25, 2016, 4:39pm

Hedge trimmer.

scottfsmith · July 25, 2016, 4:42pm

I have some electric hedge trimmers. I buzz them back to no more than 3-4 feet from the main corridor, and it only takes 5 minutes with the hedge trimmers. On the thicker shoots I need to throw the trimmers at the shoot with some force but it always manages to cut it (and it has been working for 8+ years now, I have yet to damage the trimmers). This is on this-years shoots only, it won’t cut hardened wood.

This year I am letting them expand on to a neighboring row that was blackberries but not enough light for them. One thing nice about kiwis is they will take over whatever territory you want them to

BobVance · July 25, 2016, 4:51pm

5 minutes? I spent about an hour around the edges (including freeing apple and peaches), without getting close to the main problem areas.

I don’t think I have hedge trimmers strong enough. The electric ones I’ve bought are pretty wimpy for anything but thin hedges. My Felco’s can probably get through most of it, though I think it will be a bit tricky. I’m not sure that cutting it to 3-4’ is enough- don’t I need to thin out that area near the wire as well? it is a mass of vines.

So, the consensus is “do it now”, rather than when dormant?

scottfsmith · July 25, 2016, 5:13pm

The main time I cut is in later June, the shoots are smaller and more easy to cut. Also if you cut hard early they will not grow back as vigorously. I often do two buzz-cuts per year.

The thinning I do in winter, in summer I just buzz them quickly to keep them from taking over.

My hedge trimmers may be less wimpy than yours, or maybe I abuse mine more… I throw them at the big vines. It cuts up to 1/2" thick this-years shoots. Bigger ones I use trimmers on.

BobVance · July 22, 2017, 3:36am

It must be an annual thing- I get done with enough other stuff to take a look at the kiwi and say “my god- they are trying to take over the world and I better do something.”

I was thinking about posting, but searched first and found my post from last July. Things are the same now but worse. I spent over an hour of cutting to just free a peach tree. I’m actually surprised that it looks as good as it does after being entombed in kiwi for months. No peaches left on it…In fact, I think that’s what triggered me to cut the kiwi back- wondering if there were any Gold Dust peaches ready.

Before:

After (from the same angle and position):

I feel like I need to cut about 95% of the kiwi vine off, to get them back to a manageable size. I was planning to do it in late winter, but I missed the window again and they were “bleeding” badly as soon as I cut them, so I stopped. Maybe I should do it in January instead, just to make sure I actually get done.

One of the problems is knowing what to cut back to. Only the outer layer is actually alive and growing, with a large dead area in the middle of the vine. Maybe I should prune in the fall, after harvest, but when I can still tell what is alive.

One good thing is I found some buried treasure- a white current (Primus) bush which was hidden from both me and the birds. It seems that growing in almost total shade didn’t make them any worse than normal. Though “treasure” may be going a bit far- as they are somewhere between bland and sour. The best use I’ve found for them is adding pectin when mixed with other fruit for jam/jelly.

Note the kiwi above the Issai kiwi above the currant.

BobVance · June 16, 2024, 5:29am

It’s taken a while, but I think I’m coming around to your approach. I’ve finally got some good (and with a long cutting area) hedge trimmers from Ego, with a 56V battery.

It looks like I did it again. This time on the nice spread-out trellis. I didn’t do the dormant pruning and they got away from me. In fact, I may have skimped on the right-hand section last year as well, since it was harder to get to.

I finally decided I needed to do something and when I checked today, I found very little fruit. At least, in the areas I could get to. So, I spent about 45 minutes hacking things back with a combination of hedge trimmers, hand pruners, and loppers (some thick wood). During that process, I cut out a lot of fruit which was 8-12’ in the air, in the middle of the mess.

I was able to cut a path down the middle - the hedge trimmers helped a lot with that part, as I used them like a machete:

By the end, it got dark and I only got about half of it done (the foreground half).

But, I’ve resolved that I will get it down to within a foot of the top of the trellis (which is at 5.5 to 6’) and keep it there in the future with the hedge trimmers. I should have also gotten a lot more pruned during the dormant season, when I could see what I was cutting…

I’ve gradually been eliminating kiwis (Ken’s Red got the ax last winter). I’m now down to 6 large females, 1 massive male, and a smaller male (which is near 3 of the females ~150 feet from the other vines).

One of those 3 (Fortyniner) near the smaller male is still unruly, despite my increasingly firm efforts. Last year I cut out most of the leaders and left only 1-2, but it is still growing everywhere, with little fruit. So, it wouldn’t surprise me if I decide to get rid of 1-2 more this winter (maybe Issai too…).

Codrifolia and Rossana are the keepers.

scottfsmith · June 16, 2024, 11:06am

Wow that’s quite the forest you have there. Your post reminds me it’s about time for me to give my own kiwis a prune. Since my post above I bought some more powerful pruners which can easily prune the thickest shoots.

My argutas have never fruited much, not sure why but it may be from lack of good sun. The chinensis on the other hand always fruit well. This year my Anna has a big crop, one of the few years it has done that. A big tree fell down last spring and that might help out my argutas.

EliindaUP · June 16, 2024, 1:16pm

Wow! What a jungle! I planted 34 vines last year, and the pictures on this thread have me sweating bullets. 6- Annas, 6- Geneva 3’s, 4- Dumbarton Oaks, 4- Meader Females, 3- Ken’s Red, 3- MI State, 6- Meader Males, and 2- Fairchild Males. I guess if my short season doesn’t slow them down, I will have to invest in a tank with a flame thrower!

danzeb · June 16, 2024, 2:33pm

It’s mid June and the Anna has already grown 6 ft. Already did a little prunning. It’s important to do heavy winter prunning to keep them under control.

BobVance · June 16, 2024, 4:31pm

I think the reason mine aren’t fruiting as much this year is that I let them go wild with growth and the parts that I can check for fruit are in the shade of all the growth, The trellis area as a whole has some shade, but isn’t too bad. If it had no shade, I’d be too tempted to put jujubes in there. I have way too many jujube trees (>100, even not counting the dozens of small seedlings), but while pruning yesterday found myself thinking how much easier they would be

Maybe I should graft over 1-2 of my vines with the fuzzies. Maybe a yellow one. Any suggestions on the best tasting one?

I hope you are a farm. If you have a good sized trellis (and you should, since it makes the pruning much easier), the vine can get huge and have a massive amount of fruit. One of my vines, a Cordifolia which I have on a X shaped trellis, maybe 50-60’ of total length produced dozens of pounds of fruit last year. So much that I was still picking in December, well after the frosts and it started to dry on the vine a bit. And this was the one near the small male, where most of the pollination came from me waving a branch cut from the big male around it 2-3 times during the bloom. I forgot to do that this year and the set is pretty light, mostly focused on the part nearer the small male, which I assume means it produced a few flowers. That doesn’t distress me at all- a moderate is fine.

On the other hand, it’s possible to get almost no fruit, as I did from Ken’s Red for over a decade. In recent years I got a handful of fruit, but it was too little too late, especially since it was in almost full sun. The spot got reclaimed for jujube

That is one of the varieties on the chopping block for me. It is also known as “Jumbo” and “Chico” (lots of names for it…). So, I accidentally got 2 of it, one of which was grafted over to Cordifolia a few years ago. The Jumbo/Chico/MSU fruit is a bit larger, but not as sweet as the others and can get a bit of sooty blotch/flyspeck (just cosmetic).

Yup…I missed that this winter.

EliindaUP · June 16, 2024, 6:01pm

Hey, Bob. Yep, I am on a simplistic family farm. We have a local Co-op we have started selling berries and such through. The owner was very interested in the kiwi project, although I told him it would probably be a minimum of 5 years for the hardies. I also have about 20 kolomiktas planted as well.
The trellis is built on white cedar logs a little over 7’ above grade to keep the deer damage down. I am over 6’ tall, so it will also be a comfortable picking height. I used 18’ Balsam fir poles for the laterals. That way the vines are 15’ o.c. I have a lot of dead and dying balsam and cedar in the woodlot that needed cleaned anyway, so supplies were affordable and easy to replace. Gave me something to do 2 winters ago when work was slow. My plan is, (hopefully), to keep a single trunk, then train to 2 to 4 permanent cordons, and trim all growth annually back to those. Does that sound remotely possible given the excessive growth they exude?
I will see about MI State here. It seems to get mixed reviews, I have noticed. Some say its pretty good, others not. I can always replace or graft it if need be. Space isn’t an issue.
Jujubes are the one very longshot plant I hope to try soon just for kicks. If you have any suggestions for varieties that are obscenely early, I’m all ears. I was thinking Autumn Beauty and Honey Jar.

BobVance · June 16, 2024, 6:14pm

You may need a step-ladder to run the hedge-trimmers over the top. I’m a bit over 6’ myself and have to reach up quite a bit to run them maybe a foot over the 5.5-6’ trellis. But, Having the trellis a few inches higher is very good in one way- the height I have it is just high enough that I don’t see it over the bill of my hat. My first notice of it is when it hits my forehead…

34 vines will be a lot to keep on top of. It’s easy to look at it and say “ugh, not today”. But then it keeps getting more and more difficult. I think if you get on a regular schedule it might not be too bad.

Honey Jar is a great choice. Autumn beauty is larger and one of the earlier ripening one, so it isn’t bad. I’m not as fond of it myself, but some people seem to really like it. Sugar Cane is probably the earliest here, maybe a tad before Autumn Beauty, though not by much. It is also crisp, with great texture.

EliindaUP · June 16, 2024, 6:18pm

Good to know, thank you! Would much rather deal with short stepladders than head thunkers.

warmwxrules · June 16, 2024, 9:31pm

I’ve had to whack mine back hard the past few years. I hope i’m safe to assume these are fruit? 1st year ever and i’ve had these in for quite a few years (5+) In the past i believe only the male has bloomed.

BobVance · June 17, 2024, 4:37am

I went back at it today and was able to finish pruning this trellis in a couple more hours. When in doubt, I cut more…Here’s a corner where there was a decent amount of fruit.

But, it was going pretty close to a drop-off, which made picking and pruning difficult. If it was just picking, I would live with it. But when pruning is difficult, I tend to not do it, so I cut it back hard.

As a bonus, I noticed the Damson plum tree (planted in 2014 after a couple years in a pot) next to the fence actually has a decent fruit set this year for the first time. The kiwi vines not only reached it, but were starting to choke it out.

There were a few spots where I kept a small amount of fruit

I may need to go back a few days from now to see how many of the branches that weren’t removed wilt, indicating that I cut it somewhere upstream. But, for now, I have it greatly reduced in height.

And if anyone is wondering, the 2-3’ tall plants in the foreground are potatoes.

EJh · June 17, 2024, 4:56am

What’s your trellis? I’ve seen a few different things on here and yours has gotta be study with that monster.

Im planning on putting in a kiwi next year

BobVance · June 17, 2024, 6:02am

Early on I tried various completely insufficient approaches, mostly posts with wire strung between them.

The one which I regard as adequate to the task is composed of chain link fence posts for the vertical sections and 1 3/8" chain link top rail for the horizontal supports.

Here’s a pic from 2013, when I first built it.

Early on, it was held together just by positioning. But that didn’t last, and eventually I drove a bolt through each connection point, so that nothing can come apart.

This is from 2019, when I realized the issue and added bolts into each of the cups that hold the top-tail.

An example of the bolts that hold it together now:

One thing that I would do differently is to ensure that there is at least 5’ of open space on all sides. In the 2nd pic, you can see the hill drops off pretty close in the upper right. That was the corner I have the pics of in my last post where I had to cut off a ton of growth in order to enable myself to get around the trellis.

EJh · June 17, 2024, 12:43pm

Did you drive the posts into the ground or do concrete with them?

I’m probably going to “borrow” what you did