List of hybrid persimmon species available in USA

General Fruit Growing
#173

Not from Nikita.
Derev’ianko et al 2020 - Dar Sofiyivky as a new Ukrainian cultivar of persimmon.pdf (1.0 MB)

Field studies of the persimmon species, cultivar and form collection, hybridization and station testing of hybrid seedlings have been conducted in the orchards of State Enterprise Experimental Facility “Novokakhovska” of Institute of Rice of the National Academy of Agrarian Sciences of Ukraine (Kherson region).

In vitro seed germination of and two-year hybrid persimmon seedlings growth has been carried out in the Department of Genetics, Breeding and Reproductive Biology of Plants of the National Dendrological Park “Sofiyivka” of the National Academy of Sciences of Ukraine.

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#174

Are you at all familiar with the texana persimmon species? If so, do you know if it has parthenocarpic tendency? I’ve got some seeds I’m going to plant and I’m trying to learn as much about them as I can.

I also have a fuyu persimmon that performs fine. But there’s one at a different location I can’t figure out why the fruit is so small and falls off. It’s been there many years and I don’t know what cultivar it is. What are some possibilities for the small fruit in your opinion?

#175

@jsteph00921
How are your questions related to the topic of this thread?

#176

Grygorieva et al 2008 - Introduction, Breeding and Use of Persimmon Species.pdf (363.8 KB)

varieties bred at the Research Station “Novokachovskoje”, Nikita Botanical Garden, Nová Kachovka:

  • Rossiyanka
  • Nikitskaya bordovaya
  • Mount Rogers
  • Mount Goverla
  • Mount Roman-Kosh
#177

More to come! (Johnny Carson)

Please see the last PDF update below.

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#178

You seem to have an interest in persimmons. I thought your knowledge might extend to other areas of the cultivation. Did it offend you?

#179

‘Dar Sofiyivky’ is an OP seedling of ‘Kolhospnytsia’ (‘Колгоспниця’ in Ukrainian, ‘Колхозница’ in Russian), I think this was mentioned somewhere already (perhaps in another thread). ‘Kolhospnytsia’ is Nikitskaya Bordovaya x D. kaki (see, https://baa.by/upload/science/conferencii/selekciya-i-genetika-innovacii-i-perspektivi-20.pdf, page 48).

Nikitski Botanical Garden (NBG) and Research Station “Novokakhovskaya” are two different places. NBG is on the southern coast of Crimea, not far from the city of Yalta. Research Station “Novokakhovskaya” is near the city of Novaya Kakhovka in Kherson oblast (region). Rosseyanka and Nikitskaya Bordovaya have been selected at NBG, while the “Mount” (“Gora”/“Гора”) varieties have been selected in “Novokakhovskaya”.

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#180

Thank you, one article puts the names together as one place.

About the breeding locations … Olga G. said this in the 2008 publication, p. 62:

Grygorieva et al 2008, Table 4, page 62
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#181

More information from the paper “СЕЛЕКЦИЯ ХУРМЫ (DIOSPYROS SPP.) НА АДАПТИВНОСТЬ
В УСЛОВИЯХ ЮЖНОЙ СТЕПИ УКРАИНЫ” (“Selection of persimmon (Diospyros spp.) for adaptation in conditions of southern steppes of Ukraine”), by Derevyanko et al., https://baa.by/upload/science/conferencii/selekciya-i-genetika-innovacii-i-perspektivi-20.pdf, pp. 46-50.

  • ‘Rosseyanka’ (‘Россиянка’ in Russian) = D. virginiana × D. kaki
  • ‘Nikitskaya Bordovaya’ (‘Никитская бордовая’ in Russian) = OP seedling of Rosseyanka. More specifically: “Nikitskaya Bordovaya was obtained from selection in progeny of first back-cross (D. virginiana × D. kaki) × D. kaki, where D. kaki was represented by a mixture of pollen from several highly heterozygous varieties” (“Никитская бордовая получена в результате отбора в потомстве первого беккросса на видовом уровне – (D. virginiana × D. kaki) × D. kaki, где рекуррентные D. kaki были представлены смесью пыльцы нескольких высокогетерозиготных сортов”).
  • ‘Kolhoznitsa’ / ‘Kolhospnytsia’ (‘Колхозница’ / ‘Колгоспниця’ in Russian / Ukrainian) = ‘Nikitskaya Bordovaya’ × D. kaki
  • ‘Dar Sofiyivky’ (‘Дар Софиевки’ in Russian, ‘Gift of Sofiyivka’ in English) = OP seedling of ‘Kolhoznitsa’ (aka ‘Kolhospnytsia’). More specifically about pollen parent: “in the orchard, the trees of ‘Kolhoznitsa’ grew near blooming trees of choice varieties of D. kaki (mostly those with a good degree of winter hardiness) and best, by winter hardiness, early ripening and flavor, hybrid varieties” (“в саду рядом с деревьями Колхозницы росли и успешно цвели отборные (преимущественно достаточно зимостойкие) формы D. kaki и лучшие по зимостойкости, раннеспелости и вкусовым качествам плодов гибриды D. kaki с D. virginiana”).

Varieties obtained as ‘Nikitskaya Bordovaya’ × D. kaki and characterized by lower winter hardiness than ‘Nikitskaya Bordovaya’:
‘Novinka’ (‘Новинка’ in Russian, ‘Novelty’ in English), ‘Gora Goverla’ (‘Гора Говерла’ in Russian, ‘Mount Hoverla’ in English), ‘Gora Rogers’ (‘Гора Роджерс’ in Russian, ‘Mount Rogers’ in English), ‘Gora Roman-Kosh’ (‘Гора Роман-Кош’ in Russian, ‘Mount Roman-Kosh’ in English), ‘Konicheskaya’ (‘Коническая’ in Russian, ‘Conical’ in English), ‘Ovalnaya’ (‘Овальная’ in Russian, ‘Oval’ in English), ‘Pamyati Chernyaeva’ (‘Памяти Черняева’ in Russian, ‘Memory of Chernyaev’ in English).

Varieties obtained as ‘Nikitskaya Bordovaya’ × D. kaki and characterized by higher winter hardiness than ‘Nikitskaya Bordovaya’:
‘Bozhii Dar’ (‘Божий дар’ in Russian, ‘God’s Gift’ in English), ‘Kolhoznitsa’ (‘Колхозница’ / ‘Колгоспниця’ in Russian / Ukrainian, '‘Collective Farm Women’ in English), ‘Odnodomnaya’ (‘Однодомная’ in Russian, ‘Monoecious’ in English), ‘Seedling 3/1’ (‘Сеянец 3/1’ in Russian).

Varieties obtained as ‘Nikitskaya Bordovaya’ × D. virginiana and characterized by higher winter hardiness than ‘Nikitskaya Bordovaya’ and ‘Rosseyanka’:
‘Sosnovskaya’ (‘Сосновская’ in Russian), ‘Chuchupaka’ (‘Чучупака’ in Russian), ‘Universal’nyi’ (‘Универсальный’ in Russian, Universal in English), ‘Seedling 12/11’ (‘Сеянец 12/11’ in Russian), ‘Seedling 12/21’ (‘Сеянец 12/21’ in Russian), ‘Seedling 15/5’ (‘Сеянец 15/5’ in Russian). ‘Seedling 15/5’ had the best winter hardiness of all varieties mentioned above, it not just survived the extremely cold winter of 2005-2006, but produced a full crop.

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#182

It’s a good idea indeed that interests other people. And it would also make an American persimmon hybrid.
To do this I suggest taking diospyros Roxburghii to hybridize with texana.
Indeed, both have 2n=30 chromosomes.

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#183

Richard, by the same logic ‘Meader’ and ‘John Rick’ have been bred bred at the “Novokakhovskaya” Research Station, right? (Actually not, LOL.)

They compare properties of three varieties bred at the “Novokakhovskaya” Research Station (Mount Rogers, Mount Goverla, Mount Roman Kosh) to those of better known cultivars: Rosseyanka, Nikitskaya Bordovaya, and three D. virgininana varieties. I know the fact that ‘Rosseyanka’ and ‘Nikitskaya Bordovaya’ have been selected at the NBG from Derevyanko himself, this info is 100%.

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#184

Nikitskaya Bordovaya was bred by Oleksandr Kazas in 1975 in Nikita Botanical Garden by open pollination of Rosseyanka. All Goras were selected by amateur grower (I know him personally) Yuri Bogdanovskiy in Feodosiya in the eighties. He than shared his three cultivars with Derevyanko who included them in the breeding program in Novokakhovskoye. Goras were Nikitskaya Bordovaya open pollinated by kaki.

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#185

From what I know, Derevyanko and Bogdanovskiy are both listed as the co-breeders of Goras. I also know that there was a lot of seed exchanges going on between them back and forth. I don’t know more specific details for these varieties, like, for example, B. sent seeds to D. who germinated them, or vice versa.

I said that I know 100% that ‘Rosseyanka’ and ‘Nikitskaya Bordovaya’ have been selected at the NBG. Do you know otherwise? If not, next time read carefully what you’re replying to.

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#186

I apologise…I’ve misread that Rosseyanka and Nikitskaya Bordovaya were selected by Derevyanko.

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#187

Foods for thought, since Jerry Lehman came up with JT-02 Hybrid persimmon (Josephine female DV X Taishu Kaki male flower with a super cold tolerance up to -22F to -26 F and died at -33F in my Z5 Omaha in the Polar Vortex of 2019). JT-02 is way more cold hardy than Rossyanka for sure. I wish the Ukrainian would take JT-02 and did all the crosses like they did with Rossyanka to get Nikita’s Gift then all the Goras…then…Dar Sofiyivky…etc…Imo that JT-02 would give them more cold hardy offsprings than Rossyanka ever did. What do you think? This is why I think We should use JT-02 and cross it with alll the cold hardy Kaki males and 400-5 male( Rossyanka female Op ưuth American persimmon) hardy to -33F to get better cold hardy offsprings than the Ukrainian Hybrid persimmons. Plus JT-02 tasted better than Rossyanka. @Richard , one of the 5 Prok x 400-5 is a male. Can you tell me what is the parentage if I cross JT-02 x (Omaha Prok X 400-5) male?

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Thanks

Tony

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#188

Accepted. Thank you.

#189

@Stan
In the English versions of the Ukrainian articles, I see this capitalization in some

Nikitskaya Bordovaya

and this in others

Nikitskaya bordovaya

Does this also occur in the Ukraine language articles you’ve read?

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#190

Zolhoznitsa, can also be written like this in the translation "Kolhoznitza "

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For your information, 12 hybrid varieties were created by Dr. Kazas at the same time from Nikita’s gift.
6 still exists.
Only Nikita’s gift has been unveiled to the world.

The other trees were scattered, without follow-up.
A tree was given to Mr. Zayat. The tree was later used for the selection of new varieties by Michel Zeldi, now deceased.
This variety is called Rosseyanka 2, for the difference of Rosseyanka 18.

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#191

One of the unknown items that is skipped over in many of the articles but shows up in the notes a few times is that backcrosses to parent species often show incompatibility mostly because tissue culture is required to produce viable offspring. Since we have several contributors who are familiar with the research, do you know or have read anything that suggests incompatibility between D. kaki and D. virginiana is a problem when using hybrid lines as one parent? I’m making a guess with this number, but it looks like about 75% of backcross seed may not be viable without TC.

I did a quick check in literature for D. virginiana provenance in the area where I live. I had always thought this area would be pure tetraploid. However, it seems the hexaploid type spread down the Tennessee river and became endemic through much of Tennessee, North Alabama, and Mississippi. I’ve noticed two different bark types on persimmon nearby so perhaps both hexaploid and tetraploid are present.

Pure D. virginiana appears to be hardy down to -30 to -45 degrees F where D. kaki is rarely hardy lower than -10. F1 hybrids are often hardy in the mid range about -20. Advanced generation hybrids F2 to F5 seem to have a range of hardiness with some similar to the kaki parent and others similar to the virginiana parent. Most are in the mid range about -20F. You can almost tell the parentage of a variety by the level of cold it can withstand. I was having a problem understanding this when JT-02 was listed as very cold tolerant but Dar Sofiyivky was only to -22. The temperature tolerance suggested Dar Sofiyivky was not an F1 hybrid. This was born out in discussion above where it is listed as an advanced generation hybrid.

#192

Cliff has a hybrid listed as “MEI ZI hybrid” with a note that it has large fruit. Located in Row-17, Tree #8. Im unable to find any additional information on it and ive just asked Cliff for any info. Waiting for his response now.