Thanks. I do have mental plans for a couple of trees that if all works well would have a couple of limbs of some other variety grafted on the primary scion. Although I am looking for ~ 8-12 ft trees, it seems best to steer away from the g935 and g814. Obliged. - Pete
If youāre going to grow rows of them, and stake and trellis them, and also run irrigation, and especially if itās an old orchard site that the old trees have been bulldozed outā¦then Geneva roots are probably or even definitely what you want.
I agree the rest of us should proceed with some caution!
There are articles after articles of growers putting a lot of their orchards in Geneva rootstocks to have buyers regret about the performance of durability of the Geneva rootstocks. So like Blueberry said, most of us are proceeding with caution.
Iāve gone all in on G969. The data shows it to be exactly what Iām looking for. A free standing dwarf. Iām mostly growing heirlooms and cider apples. This spring I grafted 250 on G969 and about a dozen on G890. Almost all are whip and tongue.
So far it looks like 99% of my grafts took and are going into the nursery next week.
8 Likes
Any update on G969? Iām curious about how theyāve held up for you in the last year.
1 Like
Theyāve done well. They started off strong then slowed down, then later summer early fall they launched. I should have fertilized/fed them sooner. I have a spreadsheet I need to update with all the sizes for the different cultivars to show the performance. I bought more G969 to try on some new varieties. I also got some m111 for the more stubborn varietals. This spring Iām concentrating mostly on red flesh apples.
1 Like
And the G890? They do OK also?
I skipped the Geneva this coming grafting season, opting to only order Budagovsky roots.
Plus some seedling stock Iāve āhatchedā.
@CiderPresser Thanks for getting back to me so soon! Any thoughts on how theyād do in pots? Long story short pots work better for my current situation, with the intention to put them in the ground in a few years. Also, any chance youāll be posting that spreadsheet when itās done? Weāre all desperately in need of good data on new Geneva rootstocks. Iāve had my eye on 969 and 890 for a while, so Iād be curious to know which fares better with which varieties.
1 Like
I have grafted about ~225 apples onto Geneva rootstock. Approximately 50 onto G41, 25 onto G890, and 150 onto G969. I have another 50 G969 coming in next month.
So far, the G890 is at 100% takes, the G969 is at 97.5% takes and the G41 is at 86% takes.
The G41 seems to be problematic. It doesnāt grow fast, it has anchoring issues requiring support, and it can have weak graft unions with certain cultivars. As noted above, it also doesnāt take as well as others. These were all cleft, whip and tounge and chip budded. If I want more trees in the future, Iāll stick to the G969. Itās a semi dwarf that is free standing and grows at a very good pace.
6 Likes
The G890 didnāt do well and I donāt know why. I have some trees on it that are doing well. I have a few northern spy on 890 that are 10ā tall and the northern spy on the G969 did terrible but might take off this spring. Iām told that the old timers are the only ones that know how to grow northern spyās haha. I did order another 25 of the 890 because Cummins swears by it but thatās the only reason.
2 Likes
Iāll post the spreadsheet as soon as I get the rest of the data in. I got a final measurement on everything once they went dormant. I did use an organic chicken manure fertilizer but it was mid June by the time I got it down. I wish I got it down sooner.
I started some otterson on G969 in pots that were grafted from wagon wheel orchard and they did terrible which might have been the g969 not being as compatible. Did great in the pots but not so much in the nursery. I have a sandy gravelly weāll drained soil and had drip irrigation from a well. Itās excellent soil and everything loves to grow in it. I ordered another 100 G969, 25 G890, 12 M111 and 12 G16 which I have virus free scion for.
3 Likes
In case anyone comes across this thread and is looking for some data on Geneva rootstocks, hereās a video from Nova Scotia, Canada, where various Geneva rootstocks (along with a few others) were tested with the Modi and Buckeye Gala apple varieties: Video 2: Rooted in rootstock trials - YouTube. While graft union strengths are unfortunately not discussed, things like disease resistance, fruiting amounts, growth patterns, suckering, etc, are talked about at length. Very informative overall. G11, G30, G41, G202, G214, G222, G890, G935, G969, G4814, M9T337, M26, IFO2, and B10 are all discussed throughout the video.
While this may not be applicable to the situations that we as hobby growers face, itās still more data, and can give a little insight on what to expect in our own Geneva trees.
6 Likes
Thanks, that is interesting. Too bad they didnāt have more non-Geneva stocks in the trial for comparison. I did notice at the end that the precociousness of all the Genevas was badly beaten by good olā M26.
2 Likes
I must have missed thatā¦Iāll go back and look.
Interesting that B-10 seemed to be ahead in the '19 plantings.
The problem with the M series, and the reason why orchards seem to be moving to Geneva, is disease resistance. M series rootstocks have much less resistance to wooly aphid, crown rot, and replant disease, and no resistance to the worst of all, fireblight. Fireblight is especially a problem for the commercial grower, as it can wipe out an entire orchard of susceptible trees in a season. The Geneva trees for the most part are resistant to these things, as that was the primary consideration when breeding them. M26 might be a good option for a home grower, but even then, Iām personally not taking the risk of losing my trees, so I went with a Geneva rootstock in the end.
1 Like
Iāve had at least 3 or 4 trees in the late 1970ās to a couple dozen in the 90ās.
Only recently have I been buying Geneva and Budagovsky roots. And Antonovka in '16.
Iāve never lost a tree to fireblight so far. A couple to root rot. Some to herbicide. Couple to drought. Lost some limbs (but mostly small) to blightā¦but no trees. Not Earliblaze, not Stayman, not Braeburn, not Fuji, not Gala, Not Rome, not Jonathan, not Geneva Early, etc, etc.
On M7, M106, M111, and seedling.
So, I didnāt avoid the Malling for thatā¦but for reasons such as quicker bearingā¦in grafting over the last 5+ years.
I never grew them in my orchard but planted several G30s in a windy site that I managed for about 20 years. One of 6 or 7 trees broke and I never staked any of them. The trees survived many seasons of heavy loads of fruit.
If I already had such trees and was afraid of breakage I would go beyond staking them and actually make splints, taking a strong straight piece of wood or metal and taping it tightly to the trunks below and above the graft union with electric tape. Iād remove old tape and rewrap every spring until trees reached an age where I felt secure it wouldnāt break.
The staked trees that are snapping must be able to shift enough in the wind to put pressure on the unions. Treat them like a healing broken bone.
3 Likes
My read is the commercial grower wants insurance, and the better resistance figures of Geneva stocks give them that. In practice this disease resistance advantage of the Geneva series didnāt show itself in my orchard in any appreciable way, and in fact I lost more Geneva stocks compared to M26/7/106/111 in the last 20 years. The only M stock without longevity was M9, Iām done with that one. Note that I donāt have to worry too much about replant disease and the Geneva stocks could have an advantage there which I did not get to measure.
1 Like
@scottfsmith Very interesting. What Geneva rootstocks did you lose and what diseases did you lose them to? Were you using certified virus-free scion? This is more of that good data Iāve been talking about haha.