I grafted about 20 trees on G890 last year. I was looking for a more dwarfing but freestanding tree after years of working with m111. I got tired of pruning m111 and tired of ladders etc. I decided on g890 based on research I have done here and also to speaking to Cummins nursery. I think it was Jim I spoke to and he convinced me.
Thanks all
1 Like
I had G16, G11, and G30ā¦ in other words about all the ones they had available 10-20 years ago. Some of the G16 I lost because I grafted on to them but Iām not counting those against G16. I talked to Jim about some of them.
Note Iām not saying the Geneva stocks are bad, but I donāt see any reason for home growers to go out of their way to get them now. Australia has one of the most advanced group of commercial apple growers in the world and they are doing just fine with Malling etc ones. Maybe in 20 years the dust will settle on the Geneva stocks and there will be a few ones which are clear winners.
2 Likes
Called cummins nursery years ago who asked my needs for these g series rootstocks and was very helpful. He let me know the pros and cons and I saw no benefit to me for them. Everyone has discussed the advantages and disadvantages already. There were people who told me they broke on them but grew excessively. Staking was an absolute must but lots of extra work. Mm111 rootstock work best here if itās not mm111 it dies here. Mm111 have a nearly 100% survival rate. Antonovka cling to life barely but only live 30% of the time. Dwarfing rootstocks ive tried die 100% of the time. Mm111 appear more tolerant to drought and heavy rains which are normal in Kansas. There are wild seedling apples that grow fine here but those are not readily available. Mm111 are very tolerant of a variety of soil types.
3 Likes
I also called Jim at Cummins nursery a few years ago, seeking advise on a rootstock for a difficult location. He suggested M7. Thatās also insanely easy to graft.
I nonetheless have a few Geneva rootstocks on trees in my yard. Most are young and donāt get full sun, so ā¦ But my thought was that i reduce my risk of a total loss by diversifying the genetics, so each apple is different. Itās also fun this way.
2 Likes
Interesting you mentioned the Antonovka rootstock. I used one and also a M111 with the exact same scion. I just wanted to try a standard size tree in one area. I planted both in 2018. So far the Antonovka is only 38" tall. The M111 is 81". The Antonovka has not grown any in two years. Very disappointed in the Geneva rootstocks I have planted and also the standard rootstock choices. I agree with you the M111ās do a lot better in my orchard and I have not had any issues with them going or any of the dying in either heavy rain periods or droughts.
1 Like
Yes mm111 is the right rootstock for those of us on the edge of the fruit growing regions.
1 Like
Including the windy and summer-drought-prone west. It seems to be the go-to rootstock in most of California. I note that TOA uses little else.
1 Like
M111 does get a little large for picking, though. I have one in my front yard, and i can reach about half of it with a pole picker.
But itās been a very low maintenance tree. Well anchored, modest graft scar, no suckers, easy growth habit. I canāt speak to extreme water, drought, or temperature as i live in a climate thatās easy for apples. But i suppose it did survive that drought a few years back without problems. I donāt recall if i watered it. Certainly not more than one or twice over the summer.
3 Likes
It does want to get larger than Iād prefer, but Iāve found that I can keep it to a reasonable size (at least thus far) through pruning, limiting its water and fertilizer, and allowing it to set fruit a bit earlier than one normally would.
3 Likes
For those that watched the recent NAFEX rootstock zoom seminar, I asked the question to both Steve and Dr. Jim Cummins if the Geneva Rootstocks transferred any disease resistance to the scion varietal? After a long awkward pause, Steve said that his Dad would say no, but Steve said that there was some pending research somewhere from someone that claims there is some, but he said no. He said the benefit is that if your tree dies, it will only die to the graft Union, which I donāt think is still that valuable of an attribute. There are some Anchorage benefits in the G969,G890,G210,G16 and some added disease resistance benefits from the ground up to the graft. However, these Genevas do seem finicky whereas the Mallings are very forgiving. A friend of mine has a beautiful small cider orchard with everything planted on M26. He does minimal spraying and pruning and his trees which are Porters Perfection, Dabinett, and Yarlington Mill are perfect untrellised productive little trees. I guess my point is, there are other options out there and the disease benefits might not outweigh the difficulty in growing. Most of my trees are heirlooms and theyāre mostly on G969. The majority are doing well, but Iām becoming more diverse with my strategy. When growing a rare variety I put at least one on M111 and one on M7, so it has better odds of survival for future scion/Bud wood. I still havenāt updated my varietal performance spreadsheet yet but will soon.
4 Likes
I agree on the M7ā¦but it still takes 4 or 5 years to bear in most cases, so the Budagovsky or
Geneva roots (of MM106 if you have the right conditions) are going to get an apple crop sooner than M7 or M111.
I have lost two G16 trees, one (Grimes Golden) to some kind of insect damage to the rootstock, and then a freak windstorm snapped it off at the ground. The other (a Novaspy) died last year, no idea why.
A G202 tree, a Winecrisp, died three years ago, I suspect some kind of root rot, or may have been varmints chewing on the roots.
My G890 Goldrush looks like itās about to die, some of the branches are darkened, and a scratch test of various branches show dark green or light brown, not good.
All of them were planted in 2016. But it couldāve been for reasons not necessarily because of the rootstock. I also lost a tree two years ago, but donāt know what rootstock it had, it was from Lowes, so no telling what it had.
I have other Geneva trees, mostly G30, and theyāre doing alright. But, they seem to have a root suckering issue.
2 Likes
As I recall from the NAFEX rootstock zoom seminar, Steve Cummins was not quite advising against using G16, but did acknowledge it has more susceptibility to viruses than any other of the Geneva rootstocks. He then added that we should be sure we use virus-clean scionwood, and then we will never have a problem, since the viruses can only be transferred via grafting.
1 Like
Have not had any suckering on any Geneva roots.
M111, yes,
B-9, yes
Antonovka, yes
But, G11 and G16 (and probably others) are not drought tolerant.
Trying 5 G30 againā¦last time did 5 in '17ā¦and have no fruits yet from any of them.
Budagovsky is my main root for the second year.
1 Like
I had three G16 trees, all from Cummins, so I assume that they used clean scions. I only have one left, another Grimes.
The only trees Iāve grafted are all M7, which I finally planted last week. Weāll see how they do.
1 Like
i think insects can also spread viruses.
Pruning can also spread it.
Iām not sure how much it would matter. But to me, virus susceptibility probably is not a huge deal in commercial orchards that have only a few varieties all certified virus free.
But for a hobbyist that plants multiple varieties and grafts. It seems like a bad choice.
would be a shame if an insect infected your tree, or you forgot to sterilize your pruners between treeās. And that lead to a diseased/dead tree instead of one having a few extra latent viruses.
Iām trying G16 for the first time this year, and having read the same claim, I sourced virus free scion from Cummins and grafted Baldwin onto it. It will be interesting to see how it does. So far Iāve had good luck with the G969 but bad luck with the G890
1 Like
I have also read that although viruses are spread primarily by infected propagative material that insects can be vectors, too.
Care to share any insights on the limitations of G890? I have a couple dozenā¦this be the third leaf for some of them, and a bloom or three looks possible.
Half of my 890 trees died and the grafted ones that I grafted also died. For a āfree standing ā root stock their roots look anemic. I havenāt given up completely on it but I wonāt be buying any more of it.
2 Likes