No more mm111 for me

A little March fertilizing, but not a lot.
A little urine.
A little pond scum/leaves/algae.

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I’ve been noticing that as well with my M106 trees, I have a good amount of them on that rootstock so, hopefully they will adjust well enough for the late dormancy tendencies.

Just as a note to novices, when you consider somebody’s advise, take into account their location. All gardening is local, and what works in one location, does not in another. In particular, MM111 is a great rootsock for West Coast growers in locations with hot dry summers and limited watering. MM111 has just enough vigor in these areas because of two factors. First, apple trees start producing here very early, usually in 2nd or 3rd year, and after a tree starts producing, vigor goes down significantly. Second, when water is limited, vigor is limited as well. A rootstock’s dwarfing effect is way more pronounced in dry summer areas on the West Coast than it is in wet summer areas like the East Coast. Therefore, I suggest not using rootstocks that are more dwarfing than MM111 in dry summer climates, unless you want a really small tree that will need to be staked for its entire life.

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Full agreement from this West Coast apple grower.

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I picked M111 for fruit production but a big factor was the fact the rootstock does not need to be staked its entire life. Something about the thought of having a fruit tree staked for all those years if a pain to do. I have all mine staked for the first 3 to 4 years and after the rootstock gets thicker to be free standing I take the stakes away. They ( the stake) are always a pain to keep straight and not get banged around after storms and the mower getting too close. With the hard winter weather and the fact it does well during the droughts we seem to get in the summer. M111 seems to work out well for me.

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@MikeC

Emla111 aka mm111 is superior to all rootstocks in my opinion at my location for similar reasons you stated. It is disease resistant, Dwarfing in heavy clay soil, vigorous, induces heavier fast production, no staking needed unlike gisela and others. Experts frequently agree M-111 Apple Rootstock - EMLA 111 - One Green World .Kansas growing conditions will quickly remind people why 111 is a great apple rootstock in Kansas. Onegreen world said it well ā€œTolerates, wet, dry, or poor soils and induces bearing at a young age. Well anchored and deep rooted.ā€ Kansas orchards sell 111 for a good reason Rootstock / Seedling – 39th Parallel Nursery & Orchard Lawrence, Kansas

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I had the same experience with Goldrush. It was not vigorous enough for its rootstock.

I think that you always need to take into account the relative vigor of the variety. Default to slightly more vigorous than less. Better a pruning chore than dead. Something I learned the hard way.

Also: ultra-conservatism in rootstocks is in order. Basically you don’t want any problems, right? Save the experimentation for the latest and greatest release for the named variety up top.

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It is appearing in my tests that B-118 does NOT like damp roots all the time…
I think it’s the moisture=holding that killed a bunch of my 2022 grafts, not the other possibilities.

So, I’ll be treating B-118 like M-106…not for muddy/clay planting locations. MM-111 is still a fine rootstock, but it takes almost as long as a seedling to bear, and it can die of fireblight. And of cold, especially after breaking dormancy.

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@BlueBerry

Everything you said can be true but if mm111 wont live and thrive in a spot no apple will. Time to move on to callery pear rootstock.

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So far pear hasn’t been much of a rootstock for apples though?

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@BlueBerry

No it isn’t but i learned to eat pears.

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I am considering grafting winter banana onto callery then apple for my areas with poor soil.

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Winter banana interstem?

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I buy more pears at the store than apples…so I guess I learned to eat pears too.
But, having been around apples ā€œin seasonā€ as a child, I have more experience pertaining to apples…but I have collected or grafted near 20 pears, and they’re just starting as I got first fruits in 2021.

Have a old farmer I’m going to get a stick of scion from his pear … already grafted him a couple trees so he’d have young ones coming on. His family possibly brought this tree from Germany in mid 1800’s, so I’m hoping to eventually get to taste one. He bragged on it and convinced me to graft him a couple…but the one I grafted for me died, so I’ll try again. It ripens in October I am told.

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Maybe I should try. I’ve not tried.

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I hope you get the scion of the old pear and it takes this time.

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No more 111 for me, either. Most of the apples I planted when we first started out were on M111/M9. Within a few years, almost every one was leaning anywhere from 45 degrees to almost lying on the ground. Had to jack almost every one of them back into an upright position and brace them with big chunks of Osage Orange wood &/or concrete blocks. Exposed, relatively windy site with good clay soil and a high water table. I finally pulled out the last of them this spring - mainly because they were varieties that didn’t work, more so than because of the rootstock.
Have a couple of apples on M7 (no leaning in 25+ yrs) and a half-dozen lunchbox apples (edible crabs) on M26. There is one remaining M111/M9 tree… and it’s got a big concrete block at it’s base, so I know, for a fact, that it’s one that had to be jacked upright.
Had a recent discussion with long-time friend Donna in TN, and it finally dawned on me… I really don’t like apples all that much… I much prefer a good pear… and by a good pear, I usually mean an Asian or a sand-pear hybrid(like the oft-denigrated Kieffer). Soft, cloying, ā€˜buttery’ ā€œdessertā€ pears… blech!

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I’ll take some of those
buttery
pears!

I do like experimenting, but I’ve not found any Asian pear I’d like another of after I finish the first one. Starking Delicious or Buerre Bosc…I can do a couple if I’m hungry.

All my M7 trees lean a little, but none have concrete blocks, lol. But I’ve got a big rock on one side of a M111 and beside a G890. (Jury is out on the G890).

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I have done some ties in an effort to straighten some trees. All are leaning the exact same direction. Prevailing wind? I don’t know. I’m actually more in a low spot near creek level rather than in an exposed location.

BTW they are primarily MM111 maybe 5 years old average. My 10 yr MM111 are relatively straight. Id like to get the younger ones relatively straight now so they grow into that form.

My Golden Delicious, that’s another story. I took a bad turn on the zero turn mower and hit it pretty hard. :hushed:

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Yes, prevailing breezes.

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