I REALLY like grocery store flat “fuyu” type persimmons. I really DO NOT like the astringent hachiya types. My mouth kinda dies inside when i eat them. Clearly i am doing somethi g wrong I have space for 1 tree and was hoping you all could suggest a variety i could plant. I was thinking about just getting a fuyu or the “jumbo” fuyu but i figured id ask here what are the best ones. It is also an option to plant 2 in one hole for pollination purposes or more variety…so fire away! See below the attached list of available varieties this upcoming bareroot year.
chocolate
coffee cake “nishimura wase”
fuyu (jiru)
giant fuyu
hachiya
-maru
Cant wait to hear what you all have to say. Thank you for the help!
The Fuyu, Giant Fuyu, and Jiro are true non-astringent persimmons and do not require pollen, so one tree will produce for you but keep in mind that none of these are particularly cold hardy. I’m in zone 7a and I know people in zone 6 who have winter dieback with Japanese persimmon. I have only one chocolate persimmon (and there aren’t any other persimmon trees nearby) and it is a reliable/heavy producer. Mine are quite full of seeds, maybe 8 seeds on average, and they are non-astringent. Chocolate pollenates itself. The seeds were quite bothersome initially but I have learnt to spit them out like watermelon seeds. However, I think they’re much better/sweeter when they’re soft. My chocolate persimmon is more flavorful and less crunchy than Fuyu that I have bought in stores. I would also say my chocolate is less sweet than a fully ripened astringent persimmon but the chocolate has a more complex/spicy flavor. I believe coffee cake and maru need pollen from chocolate persimmon if you want non-astringent fruit; without pollen they’re seedless (or nearly seedless) and astringent until fully ripe/soft. Hope this helps instead of making things more confusing.
Chocolate persimmon. Is it milk or dark chocolate… I love dar chocolate. Just kidding. Actually, I hadn’t heard of choc persimmon but it sound quite good. I am zone 8b so I have not had any problems with winter dieback on my Fuyu.
Giovanni - Is there a reason you chose the choc persimmon over fuyu or jiro as those seem to be the ones most available? I will look into the choc. Thanks for the recommendation. Mary
Sean,
you have to let the astringent Hachiya types ripen before you eat them. When Hachiya gets ripe, it gets really soft, i.e. softer than a tomato. Anytime before that and you will be eating a mouthful of cotton.
When they do get soft, they are far superior usually to non astringent types. If you dont like the soft hachiya texture, other astringent varieties may be more to your taste – I recommend Saijo which can be as sweet or sweeter and firmer than hachiya when ripe.
Other options are hybrids such as Nikitas gift.
PVNA types such as Nishimura Wase or Chocolate/Maru are another option as has been suggested by Giovanni.
I agree that you really need to try a well-ripened astringent before deciding on non-astringent if you are only going to have one tree. Some people only like persimmons crisp and then you definitely want the non-astringent, but even if you don’t want fully soft it is pretty easy to take the astringency out of astringent types by using alcohol or C02 in a plastic bag with hard but fully colored ones. You just put a little dish of cheap vodka or the like in the bag with them for a few days and the astringency is gone. Here is a Hachiya I just ate before writing this message and it was delicious - much richer and sweeter than any of the non-astringents.
I haven’t had a chocolate persimmon (or Coffee Cake or Maru), but they sound great and I’m looking forward to trying them at some point. My own trees are small, so not producing yet, but just among the store bought fruit, I’ve really enjoyed trying the different kinds.
Many years ago I accidently ate a non-ripe astringent persimmon. I have held that experience against astringent persimmons every since! I guess that is rather unfair. I have refused to taste even ripe ones…even through I know they will taste good. I guess I was traumatized!! LOL
Zendog… your pic looks delicious! I might just have to consider an astringent variety and just get over my big bad self.
I just bought a box of Hachiya. They look great! I may want to graft Sajio and Hachiya on my persimmon tree if I like the taste. Last year I tried a few but was not very impressed. I need to double check this year to be sure.
This is my last persimmon from a box or 15 or so that is in there now, but I normally take the riper looking 4 or 5 and put them in the bag - basically whatever I can fit - and leave them sealed inside for 72 hours or so. After putting the next batch in the bag (and a new teaspoon of vodka to top up the dish), the ones taken out continue to soften a little as I eat one or two a day.
Persimmon slices. Clockwise from top, Fuyu, Giant Fuyu, Hachiya, Chocolate. Three of these are growing on a single multi-grafted tree. They all taste great.
When the astringent types feel like a water balloon, they are ripe. If the flesh is still firm they are not ready.
You can also peel and hang them to dry before they are ripe and they will lose their astringency during the drying process. When dry they have the texture and flavor very similar to a palm date.
This is a very interesting thread. I planted 5 native persimmon seedlings last spring with plans of grafting named varieties to them in the future. I thought that I would only want non-astringent types but this thread is making me rethink my notion. @danchappell your second photo didn’t show up. I’d like to see what your drying persimmons look like. If you get a moment, please try to upload it again.
Great thread. One aspect not being emphasized too much here is the crunchiness of the fruit. If that’s what you’re after (like my wife, who wants it almost like an apple in crunchiness), then you have few choices other than a PCNA like Fuyu (Jiro). Even Giant Fuyu doesn’t have the degree of crunchiness of Fuyu or Jiro. The tradeoff for that crunchiness is lack of complex flavor (one dimensional, just sweet). But even so, they are far superior to store bought ones (IMO). But what’s nice is that you can let them sit on the tree and they will soften and get a more complex flavor (not like the astringent varieties though).
My grafted chocolate persimmon tree was a gift from a cousin after I’d bought my house that happens to have a sizable area of land. At the time I knew little about persimmons. I remember my first impression of chocolate was that is was a lousy cultivar to grow. They’re smallish and full of seeds and they’re significantly less sweet than an astringent persimmon. If you eat the chocolate when soft it is mushy (which I dislike) but it has good flavor that for me took some adjusting to. I personally do not like mushy food as a texture thing.
Astringent persimmon (which are more watery than the chocolate) are growing on me. I tend to think if you like persimmons you’ll like either of the 3 types we’ve discussed, astringent, non-astringent, and PVNA but each of these have different texture. I have had all three of these and the non-astringent are the least flavorful but they’re firmest. Lastly, as Ramv pointed out there are hybrids like Nikita’s Gift and then American persimmons, which are more cold-hardy but I have never tried.
Giovanni… great information. It is one thing to read descriptions of cultivars on websites but quite another to have folks give their persona evaluations. Thank you.
Dan - thank you for the information. I had no idea about drying them and that they become less astringent as they dry. how interesting. In your drying pic, you are showing whole persimmons on racks. I would think they would rot before something that big would dry. no?? where do you put the rack for drying … do you just leave it in your house in a sunny window. with a fan? under them…special heated space, garage…??
very interesting. would love more info on drying process
I have space for 1 tree and was hoping you all could suggest a variety i could plant. I was thinking about just getting a fuyu or the “jumbo” fuyu but i figured id ask here what are the best ones. It is also an option to plant 2 in one hole for pollination purposes or more variety…so fire away! See below the attached list of available varieties this upcoming bareroot year.
