Darrell, I’ve thought about Elliot hundreds of times.
Throughout our talks I have learned that in the pecan the size of the fruit is not the most important thing, and Elliot has some very good characteristics for me:
Regards
Jose
Jose, Elliott has one weakness which is why I don’t recommend relying on it for rootstock in your climate. Elliott breaks dormancy after about 250 hours below 7C. Seedlings tend to follow this pattern when used as rootstock by breaking dormancy after which freezing temperatures can kill the rootstock below the graft. Unfortunately, this has been done with thousands of grafted trees in the U.S. which were then planted in places like Kentucky. Dead trees is the result. Riverside does not have this weakness.
Darrel, is it viable to germinate Elliot nuts, obtain a rootstock and at the same time a good tree without having to graft it?
Very interesting. LSU Ag, I’m an LSU alumni, though on the mechanical side and not the agricultural side.
I like the banana graft. It looks clean and gets you so much cambial contact.
Knowing pecans are native to my area and growing up seeing pecan orchards I looked up the US production of pecans. Louisiana still adds to the total, but is 6th on the list of states.
As I was watching the video and the use of the rubber band, I thought using electrical heat shrink tubes for grafts would work well. It would seal the graft and still be flexible for growth until the graft is safely healed.
I may try using it next spring.
Lastly by “microperforated fruit trees protective tube” is this the same as the grow tubes used extensively in young grape vineyards?
Elliott seedlings produce a fairly high number of productive offspring, however, you are rolling the dice and at best will get 1 tree in 10 that is good enough to keep for pecan production. Bass pecan sells “Sterling” which is an open pollinated Elliott offspring.
Okey, thank you so much!
Darrell, you are incredible, your knowledge about the pecan tree is like a bottomless pit.
It makes all the sense in the world that Elliot has a disastrous behavior as a rootstock in areas with long and cold winters, since the slightest increase in temperature will break the winter dormancy, exposing itself to dying in a late winter or spring frost.
He is a good rootstock for southern areas without risk of frost, but it is not my case, and therefore Elliot completely ruled out as a rootstock for me.
I do not trust the supposed legitimacy of the Riverside rootstocks that I am using, and my intention is to get some cuttings of Riverside , to graft it and guarantee a quality rootstock in the medium term.
In the meantime, if I observe any nutritional deficiency I will simply use a chelated nutritional deficiency corrector, I normally use this deficiency corrector, which is very complete.
https://www.fertilizantesyabonos.com/english/tarssan-mix/
and of course chelated zinc via irrigation.
Regards
Jose
Nickel is also required for healthy pecan growth. I grew seedlings in pro-mix MPX a few years ago and wound up with nickel deficiency. Also, pay close attention to the pH of soil growing pecans. High pH causes chlorosis from lack of metal uptake. Best growth is around pH 6.0 to 6.5.
Hi Phil.
Yes, the protective tube for fruit trees , is the same one used in vineyards, but for vineyards tubes of about 40-50 centimeters are used, while for fruit trees they are used 60-70 centimeters high.
Translate this web page.
For fruit varieties that are difficult to graft, such as walnut or pecan, and the very very difficult ones, such as pistachio on pistacea terebinthus rootstock (it entails more difficulty than grafting on UCB-1), the protective tube gives you the “added bonus” to have success in the grafts, in addition to protecting the fruit trees from pests such as rabbits, which in my region are a real curse.
At night on the streets outside my town you can already see rabbits (within the town).
It is a true biblical plague.
Regards
Jose
I bought grow tubes last year that are 48" long (122 cm).
Now I’m wondering if they would be useful in stone fruit grafted rootstock the first year… Cut to the appropriate length.
I’m enjoying this pecan thread, though I am not nor will I be growing them.
I have good childhood memories of picking pecans with my grandparents on their country land.
That is my main problem, since my Ph is about 8 - 8.5, and it is a very high Ph for pecan trees, the chelated deficiency corrector works very well, but a rootstock resistant to a high Ph is much better.
Good information about Nickel, since Tarssan Mix contains Zinc, but it does not contain Nickel, so I have to look for another more complete nutritional deficiency corrector.
Yes of course Phil, you simply cut the tubes to the appropriate size.
When I opened this thread I never thought it would have the success it is having, since tremendously interesting topics on the cultivation of the pecan tree are being addressed, in all its facets, nutritional, rootstocks, suitable varieties, pollination, etc…
I have friends in Spain who bought years ago some of the varieties of pecan trees that are available in nurseries here and are having big problems, especially with Mahan, since they bought this variety thinking that they would have good harvests of high-quality and large size nuts , and is all the opposite, since you have all the major defects of a bad variety.
They are not registered in this forum, but they do enter as guests to get information, and many of them have thanked me for all the information in this thread about the pecan tree.
Regards
Jose
Jose, I’ve thought about Elliott a bit more as rootstock for your climate. Elliott trees growing in the Auburn grove are surrounded by northern adapted trees which pollenize Elliott. While commercially grown Elliott is almost always pollinated with southern adapted varieties, nuts from Auburn should give a high percentage that would be adapted for your area. It should be easy to grow a few dozen in containers and watch to see which break buds too early in spring. Cull them and the remaining trees should be able to handle your winters. As you know, Elliott is a very good rootstock for high pH soils.
You may not be able to find a supplement with nickel. A few suppliers in the U.S. sell nickel specifically for pecans. I should be able to find a source on the pecansouth website.
Darrell, they are availability in Spain of a specific product to improve the nutrition of Nickel in pecan trees, this product:
https://sqmnutrition.com/products/speedfol-pecan-sp/
Technical information:
sqmnutrition I think they are Chilean, but they have a delegation in both the United States and Spain.
So the Nickel neither it is a problem .
Last year my friend Antonio Benito sent me some 100% legitimate Riverside rootstocks, coming from a plantation that was going to be done by an Australian guy in the province of Granada and that in the end was not done, and I will reserve a couple of these Riverside to obtain rootstock.
I don’t care if I should apply nutritional deficiencies corrector to the rootstock that Fruitex will sent me, since the important thing is to ensure the grafting of the good varieties, and if it were necessary in the future to change the rootstock could be done.
In this way I would have available cuttings of the varieties and I wouldn’t have to bother anyone by requesting graft material.
At the moment everything is going smoothly.
Regards
Jose
Don’t forget that Pecans need room to grow. Mature trees will touch at 60’ or more without a lot of work like hedging or thinning. 40-45 is the minimum spacing I would use, although some commercial guys are planting closer. But they put a lot of work into them.
Hi Stan.
Initially I had thought about a 60 x 60 feet planting frame, but since I have a lot of land and my idea is to plant about 30-35 trees, I think I will use a larger 80 x 80 feet planting frame.
I have a lot of land available, there is no need for the trees to be crowded.
Stan, I’m going to tell you what I said the other day in the pistachio thread:
In my region there is not a single pecan tree, and before kicking the bucket to go the other neighborhood (to see Saint Peter), I would like to see pecan trees more than 20 meters high in my orchard (It is good to leave a good legacy to nature)
Regards
Jose
Water, water and more water! Well, at least in July, August and September.
With that said when is the very best time to fertilize the pecan trees? Wondering if it is right after harvest as is Muscadines.
Going to look at some extra-long pole saws to cut some nearby oak limbs to keep the squirrels away. The squirrels liked the Sumner pecans too much. I’m thinking that Sumner is the original thin shelled pecan. May be wrong about that. Originally the Sumner was said to be scab resistant. Then it became just somewhat scab resistant as time went along. I suspect that some of the current varieties that is thought of as being resistant will do the same.
Fertilize pecans in late February. If a tree produced a heavy crop, fertilize lightly in fall
Sumner is a seedling of Schley, and Schley is the original papershell pecan. Schley is extremely susceptible to scab where Sumner still has fairly good resistance. Adams #5 and Amling currently have the highest scab resistance of pecans I’ve looked at.
Loss of scab resistance is very real and a major problem in the industry. I’m waiting for genetic proof of an R Gene complex in pecan similar to late blight in potatoes. When proven, and with DNA tests, we will be able to choose parents to combine multiple R genes which should provide durable scab resistance. Elliott has had the most durable scab resistance of any variety so far. It lasted over 100 years. Elliott scabs now though it is far less than other varieties.
Darrell , I suppose that the scab in pecan trees caused by the fungus Fusicladium effusum will be much more virulent in humid climates, especially in regions with rain or environmental humidity in summer, than in areas like mine, where it does not rain a single drop all summer. , and the environmental humidity is very low (if not zero).
What is evident is that in my climatic conditions, the irrigation contribution must be very abundant.
But I think that the pecan tree has a behavior quite similar to that of its “second cousin”, the European walnut Juglans Regia, that is, both varieties emit a very deep taproot, so that during the years of youth period is mandatory a heavy watering, but over the years as the tree develops a very deep root, the watering may be less abundant.
Darrell, this is a little funny, but that’s how it works among fans (a friend, who knows another friend, who is friends with another friend hahahahaha).
Well, I have a friend in Germany, who has a good relationship with a Dutch nursery, with a good collection of varieties, especially ultra-northern varieties.
I’ll send you a screenshot whit his varieties ,:
Apart from the varieties:
Tell me if they have any other varieties suitable for me in the list .
And the same time Which ones would be appropriate for Vince11?
I give you a lot of work (I know).
Regards
Jose
Hark, Dooley, Oswego, and Pawnee would work in your climate. All are fairly early maturity and make good quality nuts. Scab is not a concern in a dry climate. You could grow Major, but Hark is a better choice.
Hark, Oswego and Major are possibilities for Vince.
I suggest finding a copy of Wes Rice’s book on pecans. He covers just about all the varieties in that list. Ebay copies right now are expensive. Watch and you may be able to get one for $35 to $50l
Matching varieties to your climate is more about early maturity than other traits. All else being equal, any variety would work given scab is not a problem. But you need varieties that mature relatively early.
Here is a list of common varieties that could work in your climate. Each should be carefully evaluated for other traits since several would have problems due to poor filling, growth, and other concerns.
Adams #5, Amling, Apalachee, Avalon, Baby B, Byrd, Caddo, Caney, Cherokee, Chickasaw, Colby, Creek, Desirable, Earlton, Eclipse, Elliott, Ellis, Excel, Greenriver, Hark, Headquarters, James, Kalos, Kanza, Labette, Lakota, Liberty, Lipan, Lucas, Major, Mandan, Maramec, Miss L, Mohawk, Mullahy, Norteña, Norton, Oconee, Osage, Oswego, Pawnee, Peruque, Pleasanton, Posey, Shepherd, Shoshoni, St. Paul, Starking Hardy Giant, Stuart, Thayer, Warren 346, Whiddon, Wichita, Witte, Zinner, Zuni
Finally some good advantage in my climate hahahaha.
Interesting book, I will look to see if it can be downloaded “pirated” from the internet, and if it is not possible I will buy that book
The friend Vince11 will be very happy when he reads the news about the Dutch nursery.
Regards
Jose
