We really enjoy persimmons without seeds in our WVz6b/7a orchard. We have very few wild trees around us. I have planted seedling trees that turned out to be males so we topworked them to named varieties. Is there a list of American and Asian and Hybrids that produce male or male and female flowers?
Not sure if you’ve come across the NCGR database, but they actually list flower types for a number of American and Asian cultivars. It’s not complete, but a good starting point for identifying which ones have a history of male or perfect flowers
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Thanks but I dont see anyway to search it??
It’s not very common on pure asians; I don’t know about the other types. Of the asian persimmons commonly found in nurseries the only ones I know of making male flowers are Chocolate and Nishimura Wase (Coffeecake). Maru, Gailey, Imoto, Ganagosho, Okugoshu are others with male flowers that you probably won’t bump in to as they are not common.
I like the seeds myself and my Maru and Chocolate faded so I didn’t have seeds last year alas. I have a new Chocolate starting this year so I’ll be back in the seed business soon 
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Taishu
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Hi Jack! The easiest way might be to look at breeding programs for the varieties used as pollen donors. For Asians, of course many of the PVNAs make pollen – I’d check your Giboshi. [FYI, ChatGPT say that Giboshi doe snot produce male flowers.]. Among the PCNAs, a bunch of the “Gosho” names make pollen (e.g., Hanagosho, Okugosho) plus Fuyu and Jiro sometimes have male flowers. As noted above, Taishu is male flowering. Taishu’s ancestry includes Fuyu, Jiro, and both of these Goshos.
Among Americans, your best bet might be to look at the Claypool records. He lists all his crosses. Pretty much every named variety with male flowers descended from Early Golden (e.g., Early Golden, George, Garretson). LMK if I should mail you his list.
Where you have used male trees as rootstock, watch for root suckers. These will bloom.
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For the Americans, this might be quicker.
Assimilated Ancestries of American Persimmon Cultivars.pdf (1.2 MB)
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Curious as to why you like the seeds? Do they change the taste for you? Or do you plant them out?
The PVNA persimmons need pollination or they don’t taste good. In other varieties it can also make them taste a bit better. In Japan I think they like seeds in all their persimmons.
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It’s my understanding that research is conducted Japan on the impact of seeds on flavor and texture of non-PVNA varieties. It turns out that not all seeds are created equal. Some cultivars are preferred as pollinators because their seeds are especially beneficial.
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Claypool stressed the quality of the male in selecting varieties. The seeds are associated with larger and better tasting fruit according to Jerry Lehman, who I consider one of the top experts. I don’t mind the seeds. Also, I like to keep experimenting with growing the plants to see what I get.
JohN S
PDX OR
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My comments were focused on Kakis. I have no reason to doubt your claim about “larger and better tasting fruit,” but I have much less experience with seeded Americans.
I introduced Nishimura Wase to my garden last year with the result that most of my Kasandra (hybrid) fruit were seeded. The taste was best yet, though I can’t be sure to credit the seeds or just the maturation of the tree. I usually don’t want seeds in my persimmons, but I’ll take them in Kasandra if the fruit is always that good. As noted above, I’m not sure just any seeds will do. It may be that Nishimura Wase is special.
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Thanks, seems I already have to many Early Golden crosses in our orchard nearing bearing age so it looks like we are going to have seeds unless I chop half of them down! Going to have to teach my dog to spit out persimmon seeds 
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You guys think the quality of the male pollinator affects the quality of the fruit it pollinates? Of course the males contribution to the genetics shows up if that seed is grown, but does it affect the quality of the fruit it has pollinated?
Look up Xenia and Metaxenia. You will find that pollen can indeed affect the fruit.
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Don’t start chopping yet!
Although Early Golden and many of its offspring have male flowers, many of them do not. For example, H63A is an Early Golden offspring but as far as I know it flowers only female.
If you want to avoid seeds, focus on eliminating those names known to produce male flowers – the ones on the right hand side of Frost’s Table 3.
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Originally I raised it as an hypothesis. @Fusion_power noted that it happens in some fruits sometimes. Then I read at least one Japanese research report saying that Japanese growers favor specific varieties as pollinators because those varieties positively affect the flavor.
However in a quick search this morning, I couldn’t find that report and I don’t recall the details. It would be relatively unsurprising if the pollinator mattered for a PVNA or PVA variety, maybe only somewhat surprising if the pollinator mattered for a PCA variety (like my Kasandra), most surprising if the pollinator mattered for a PCNA variety except maybe those with PVNA genetics such as Fuyu and Taishu.
So at this point I can’t say anything with total confidence. All I have is my memory of what I read, which is unreliable.
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Curious to know what kind of success you’ve had growing out the seeds. Have you fruited any of the seedlings? If so, how long did it take? Which male-flowering cultivars do you use? I bought a couple of seedlings from Fruitwood in the fall, and so far I have been impressed with how fast they are growing and how happy them seem to be compared to the two bare-rooted, grafted plants that I have from Ison’s. But I’ve been back and forth about whether to graft them over to a named cultivar or whether to wait to see what I get.
David
ATL
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I am pretty similar. I have had some grow up, but I grafted onto them. Sometimes I have expensive or limited scion and I need to graft them onto something right away. I seem to get a couple of new persimmon babies each year, but my permaculture yard is so overgrown that sometimes they get shaded out in the spring and die. We don’t get as much growth here in the PNW because it’s cool at night and we get no summer rain. I will post if I get one that is a new cultivar and it makes good fruit… Bad fruit gets grafted!
John S
PDX OR
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