I grow Asian persimmons in SoCal. I know these are the correct variety so here’s some addtional photos for you to look over if that helps.
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I’d add that CH and JT-02 have more complex flavor than Kasandra. They’re both more of an even split of American and pure kaki, in terms of flavor. Kasandra has some of that but is closer to kaki — both in terms of flavor and texture. The problem I sometimes have with Kasandra is that it can develop a cracked seam along one side which causes it to ripen unevenly. I’d say that happens to about 15% of the fruit. It’s not a big deal when you have a full size tree, but it’s worth noting since it’s the only persimmon I’ve seen do this.
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This time I noticed the text above the pic and did a double-take. Isn’t Il Mok Jae Cha Ryang an astringent persimmon? did you treat that one with CO2 or ethanol?
I’ll be thrilled if it is NA, as I’ve got a bunch on my graft waiting to get picked. At least, assuming it is the same as “Il Jae Moh Oha Ryang” which is what I had written down for mine (trying to interpret handwriting on the wood…). But, aside from swapping the order of two words, changing a k->h and C->O seems like they were probably the same.
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No sir. Mine are definitely nonastringent! PCNA for that matter. They are seeded with no dark flesh.
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I have had this issue for 2 years running now. In 2020, they got killed by extreme heat in June (114+F). This year they got killed I presume because I transplanted it (to a good permanent location).
Next year I am expecting it to produce. If it doesn’t, I have other potted trees ready to take its place.
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Jiro - soft ripened. Quite sweet despite low heat units in PNW
Not sure why it is worth growing any other PCNA variety here when Jiro ripens early, is extremely productive and vigorous (unlike say Izu) and tastes excellent.
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I picked one and had to try it today. It was a bit early and only 16 brix, but wasn’t bad and most importantly, not astringent. I think last year I lumped it with the rest of the astringent ones and waited until it was soft when the CO2 didn’t work on a few (don’t remember which, aside from Nikita’s Gift, which I know didn’t work).
Speaking of Nikita’s Gift, I found one which was especially dark on the tree.
This one was soft ripe, right off the tree.
I gave my daughter a piece, not realizing she had some Halloween candy in her mouth. Then, told her it probably wouldn’t be sweet compared to the candy. She tried it anyway and said that it was about the same sweetness and demanded the other half (I got 1/4).
I noticed that the Korea graft (one branch on a mostly H120 tree) was dropping it’s already red leaves.
So, I picked most of the branch, other than the parts which already had animal bites. 18 lbs of fruit from just an overloaded branch. There was one exceedingly overripe fruit which tested out at 16 brix, but I think it was a bit bad.
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Shout-out to Mike @fruitkismet for my first Meader tonight. Found out last week that he lives in Logan, UT, which is about a 2 hour drive north from me. My wife has to go up there once a month for work, so she picked these up. Wonderful! Very rummy! One of the most unique fruit experiences I’ve ever had. I’ll be getting an NG in the spring and will be grafting one of Mike’s scions on it. Thanks again Mike!
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I only have space for one persimmon tree and it is growing well. I would like to have several varieties on it but was concerned that persimmons might self prune and eliminate some varieties on the lower limbs. Have any of you multi grafted and how has it worked out? Thanks
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I’m in a similar situation and interested in hearing the answers. Also, is it possible to graft astringent and non-astringent varieties on the same tree?
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There are several growers in Ukraine that have proven success with multi graft persimmon trees.
Also @BobVance here has at least one multi-graft persimmon that he has shared pictures of.
From my observations only, it’s seems ideal to multi graft onto a hybrid. The hybrids (in most cases) tend to remain smaller and exhibit more kaki like branch structure. Also a hybrid should give you increased compatibility between other Kaki, Virginiana and hybrids you may want to graft.
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2 cents from a novice: Loss of lower limbs is an issue.
Just fooling around, I grafted JT-02 to Prok last year. Three grafts took. One grew very well, maybe too well, as it was broken off in a strong wind. Another grew well and was alive in early spring but then died when the whole branch aborted. A third survives.
I also grafted JT-02 to three IKKJ trees. Since this was an experiment, I picked one lower branch on each tree. One graft failed. Of the two that succeeded, one died (just as with the Prok) when the branch aborted. The third is growing and has a fruit. But the point, again, is that a successful graft can be lost when a lower branch spontaneously aborts.
The key, I think, is to keep the graft in good sun. Graft to a strong limb. Then thin the top / center of the tree to open the center and admit light. I’m not an expert but I’d think an ideal structure would be a modified central leader with a low head and 3-4 scaffolds. Each scaffold could support a different variety.
Note that after a graft, you have to suppress growth of the rootstock variety lower down on the tree, so you’d prefer to minimize the height of the rootstock trunk. A central leader that grows above the grafts will continue to throw off shoots, requiring on-going maintenance pruning. So that’s a good reason to keep the head low. Ditto the scaffold. You’d probably also want to minimize the length of the rootstock portion of each scaffold for the same reason.
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Thanks
This past year I did a lot of persimmon grafting, with several trees (not all) being multigrafts. But my thought has been that this is a stopgap measure, just until I know what few varieties I REALLY like. Since space limitations are an issue, it might be better to have more individual trees at closer than recommended spacing, than mutigrafts at standard spacing. What think ye?
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@Yoda –
I top-worked my Prok to multiple varieties, but only because it was there and I wanted a way to fruit many varieties quickly. In general, I’m not a fan of multi-variety trees so basically I’m doing what you suggest. I have individual trees of Kassandra, JT-02, Barbra’s Blush, H63-A, Dollywood, Giboshi, IKKJ, Sheng, and Saiyo (a stretch). All except Kassandra and IKKJ are little trees grafted within the past 1-2 years.
The good news is that the Asians and Hybrids tend to be dwarfing. So your strategy should work well for them. But I’m concerned that the Americans will outgrow their spaces. I don’t mind pruning them hard so long as I can manage fruiting.
The persimmons are dropping their leaves now.
Miss Kim
Jiro
Jin Yong
Tam Kam
Tam Kam #2
Saijo
Fruit from Saijo #2 hiding in the vegetables.
Il Mok Jae Cha Ryang
Tipo
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Hi Andrew,
What can you tell us about the differences in Il Mok Jae Cha Ryang and Jin Yong?
These both have sparked my interest, I’m looking to add one more PCNA to my backyard orchard.
Dom
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I had that happen to a multi-graft. It used to have ~5 varieties, now it is just Miss Kim (the highest graft).
I did that by accident with Il Mok Jae Cha Ryang (NA). It and Picudo are both grafted onto Nikita’s Gift (hybrid), which is then grafted onto a virginiana rootstock.
The Nikita’s Gift has a number of lower branches, which seem to be doing OK. I wonder if it is good to discourage animals. I bet NA persimmons get eaten more than astringent ones. If the bottom half of the tree is astringent, I bet most animals wouldn’t bother to climb high enough to test the rest…
The time Miss Kim took over the other grafts, they didn’t last long enough for me to get any fruit from them. On the other hand, the other multi-graft has produced fruit from all 3 varieties.
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Thanks
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Dom,
They are very similar but Jin Yong might be a more vigorous tree, and the fruit might be slightly larger. They seem to ripen at around the same time. I’m not sure how consistent this will be. I’ve only been growing them for 3 years and this is their first year fruiting.
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