Persimmons 2024

FWIW, here in coastal RI my oldest DV tree, planted in 2015, would be >30’ tall except for aggressive annual pruning. Now it’s around 20’ and it seems to want to be much taller. I’ve see pictures of wild trees not too far away in New Haven CT that are 60-80’ tall, though they are quite mature. In any case, I can say for sure that large size is not limited either to 60 chromosome trees or to trees grown in the South.

That said, it does seem to be possible to keep the 90 chromosome DVs a manageable size with pruning. But the pruning must be aggressive and consistent because the tree puts on 6-8’ of growth (or more) each year.

Meanwhile, my Kasandra planted in 2017 is ~20’ tall given moderate annual pruning. It doesn’t seem to want to be too much bigger. And my IKKJs are ~15’ tall, given light annual pruning. My other trees aren’t old enough to say much.

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It is possibly a 60 chromosome, we have them in southern IN, but it hasnt been well documented how far north the 60 chromosome trees grow. Both groups are in KY so it wouldnt suprise me if they were also in SE OH.

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Is there a visual way to tell if it is a 60 or 90?

in last years persimmon thread I posted a picture. This male tree has since been cut to hopefully get root sprouts.

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I posted a qoute i found earlier this year: Persimmons 2024 - #122 by armyofda12mnkeys

You got me thinking about checking out local persimmons to see if any good ones … i know some people use fallingfruit.org but maybe a better resource might be inaturalist.org as people can submit findings and it’s a popular app so has alot of observations (or the iNaturalist phone app). I saw a decent amount of persimmon locally id like to check out in the fall.

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I’ve checked several local persimmons and found 2 that are good. One was cut down last year and the other is still growing at Colbert Ferry on Natchez trace. It makes very large fruit for a native, usually about 2 inches diameter or a tad more.

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This is currently my largest persimmon tree, Prok. It has been planted in the ground for over a year now. All the other in ground grafted trees- DC Middle, Mohler, and H-118 also survived winter and spring frosts. I think I am finally getting the hang of overwintering them, after killing several. Sorry about the photo quality, my phone is old and the lense is scratched. As you can see the Prok has a couple flowers on it that have not opened yet. The question remains will they have enough time and heat units to ripen? If so, I believe it will be a first for this far north in the Midwest. I will update at the end of the season, but things are looking good.

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How were you successful in overwintering them?

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Painted the tree trunks with a interior white latex paint. Then put tree tubes around them, then filled the tree tubes with leaves all the way up. Then I piled wood chips around the tree tubes for several inches above the graft. I tried just burying the graft, without painting the trunk white the winter of 2022-2023 with a Meader that was about the same size as the Prok pictured. It split in half above the graft due to southwest injury. I found I have to paint them. When the sun gets reflecting off of the snow in late winter it can be very intense. .

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i do the same here with my young trees. once they get a few in. trunks they aren’t as vulnerable.

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Thanks! I was pondering how to protect the Rosseyanka and JT-02 that I grafted this spring in the front yard here in Z6A.

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Is Gift of Sofiyivky self-fertile?

Dar Sofiyivkiy is reported to be female only. It is parthenocarpic meaning it sets fruit without being pollinated as is typical of most persimmons.

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Thank you for your answer and for being more precise + educating me on how to think about it better!

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It’s a rainy evening so I’m multi-tasking while watching TV. . . . Here’s a little update on the persimmons, just as data for anyone it might help. FWIW, if I don’t say that a tree was purchased then I grafted it myself on DV seedling rootstock.

[Edit: I added info on tree size, in response to a suggestion from @zendog. Bigger trees are pruned to manage height. All trees are pruned to shorten and stiffen scaffolds as well as to reduce branching to admit air and light. My site is very windy and I have to worry that a tree with a dense impenetrable canopy will blow over. I’m in coastal RI, borderline Z6B/Z7A.]

Kasandra: An established purchased tree, planted in 2017, is just loaded, again. There’s got to be >1000 fruits. So far there’s been a very modest fruit drop; I’m hoping for some more self-thinning so I won’t have to think about doing it myself. The tree is ~15’ tall and 8’ wide; it requires moderate pruning to keep it a manageable height and more aggressive pruning to open up the center.

JT-02 / Mikkusu. A four year-old pair of grafts on an established DV tree gave me ~75 ripe fruits last season and must have set >200 this year – way more than the branches could hold – but 80% have since dropped. What’s left will be a decent crop, if it sticks. Meanwhile a small four-year old seedling tree, grafted here, has a few fruits. Oddly, there are fruits on only two branches among a dozen or so. The grafts are 6-8’ long with shorter branches, after pruning. The small tree is 6’ high and 8’ wide, as the weight of branches pulls them down to horizontal.

Sheng. A three year tree, grafted here on DV seedling then planted in the ground, is growing beautifully but has not flowered. The tree is 7-8’ high and 5’ wide.

Saijo. Ditto. But a twin tree, planted in a pot, ripened 1 fruit last year and has set ~15-18 this year. Fingers crossed. This is a precocious performance. The in-ground tree is 7’ high and 4’ wide; branches are somewhat upright and should be spread. The potted tree is 6’ high (including the pot) and 4-5’ wide, so smaller.

Giboshi. A purchased tree planted in the ground 2022 has set its first modest crop, maybe a dozen. Again, fingers crossed. The tree is 7-8’ tall and 6’ wide.

Coffee Cake. A potted tree purchased last year flowered lightly (male and female) but set no fruit. The tree is 6-7’ tall, including the pot, and roughly 4’ wide. It has not grown as vigorously as Chocolate.

Chocolate. Another potted tree also purchased last year exploded with blooms, male and female. It is currently holding a huge crop. So far, this is the star performer. See picture of one branch, below. This tree is 7’ tall including the pot, 5’ wide. The weight of fruit is spreading branches.

H-63A, Barbra’s Blush and Dollywood, all grafted in 2022 to the same established DV tree, all set a ton of fruit. They each ripened ~20 last year, so I’m expecting good crops (maybe 50 each?) this year. Meanwhile, small seedlings grafted with the same varieties in 2022 generally set small crops this year. Morris Burton, grafted last year, did not blossom. Grafts are 10-12’ long with branching. Growth has been so rampant that it is difficult to reach the highest parts for pruning. The small trees are all 6-7’ tall and 3-4’ wide.

Ichi Ki Kei Jiro. Three purchased trees planted in 2015 but nearly killed by cold in Feb 2023 spent last year rebuilding. This year the trees set a very small crop – I’m estimating less than a dozen per tree. That contrasts with ~100 per tree, more or less, in 2021-22. These trees are all ~15’ tall and 6’ wide, after moderate annual pruning to keep them short enough to pick.

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Recorded my successful/failure rate on grafts today…
I didn’t count the ones on Porky’s rootstock as they are hopes n’ prayers (large rootstock but the taproot cut so hard I wasnt sure if i would get anything to grow on them as they recovered).
Think 1 out of 18 grafts came out on those (2 others are leafing out on them so late grafts i did on those may come out next 2 weeks possibly). Rest (around 50) are mostly on Pikes Peak rootstock that was about $2.2 per rootstock (w/ shipping) and 10 on Blue Hill rootstock (VERY strong root system, much more scion growth at this point, but cost more) and 10 more on Northridge Nursery that also seem like good growth as well.

image

PS I grafted H120 very late (last week or 2 ago). I had 1 of them pop out and the rest still look viable.
In fact even some of the older grafts don’t look dessicated yet when i scratched under the grafting tape. I saw some pop this week, so success ratio i hope gets higher.

Will do success/fail for pawpaws later in the week (mostly on Cold Stream Farms rootstock).

PS realized just now “H120A” actually should be “H120 (Claypool)”, will correct my sheet.

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I think we can add to the data base for all the other readers. All of our experiences can give ideas and information to the other people thinking about growing them. Where do you live? That could be a good data point.

John S
PDX OR

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Top pic grafted 2024. Bottom 3 pics grafter 2023

@jrd51 Nice report on how all your trees are doing. It would be great for future updates if you note the size of the tree as well (height and width) since it gives a sense of what folks can expect for different trees down the road. It also helps give a sense of how dense the fruit is on the tree.

Of course this would be great data for all to give when they can and I’ll certainly try to do the same.

John, I’m in the southern edge of Tennessee just above Florence, AL. I’m currently zone 8A though historically it was 7B. My lowest temperature in December 2022 was -3F and my lowest in 2024 was 0F in early January. I’m in 60 chromosome persimmon country with persimmon trees making up about 1% or 2% of the trees in the woods around this area. We have tons of oak, hickory (tomentosa, lacinosa, ovata, glabra, aquatica, and cordiformis), cowcumber, maple, sweet gum, etc.

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