Last year I planted a Tam Kam Kaki on American rootstock in a sheltered part of 6b. TamKam Persimmon aka Tam Kam persimmon — Edible Landscaping said should be hardy to 6, but looks like it may have died to the ground and is sprouting from the root stock (?). Is there anything I could have done here, or is this just mis-selling something that isn’t quite hardy enough?
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Personal opinion incoming. I’m not aware of a pure D. Kaki that can handle zone 6. Sooner or later a test winter will come along and temps will drop below zero for a few days and the tree will die. That said, even some of the hybrids struggle in zone 6.
Options are to let it grow a single replacement stem and graft it next spring or dig it up and put something else in now. IMO, graft it next spring because persimmon is relatively easy to graft.
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I purchased two types of improved American Persimmon (Morris Burton and Yates) from Chestnut Hill and I meant to change the shipping date to the winter but I procrastinated too long and just received them. I planted them in a more sheltered area in my grandma’s side yard, watered them in, and put a mulch ring around them. From here what would be the routine to follow to keep them alive? They already look kind of puny as it is.
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I agree with @Fusionpower. I live in Z7A on the border of Z6B. My only in-ground non-astringent PCNA Kaki is Ichi Ki Kei Jiro, which survives so long as temperatures don’t drop to -5 F or below. A young tree would be even more tender. Two years ago, we had a couple of nights at -5 F and -7 F. All the wood less that 3 years old was killed.
Nurseries are deceptive, exaggerating the hardiness of their plants. Even if a tree can survive the AVERAGE winter low temperature in Z6B, which is 0 to -5 F, there will be frequent deviations below the average. So some random night might get to -10 F. Your “hardy to Z6” Kaki is not going to survive -10 F unless it’s buried in snow.
Sometimes there is hype about this or that Korean PCNA variety surviving to -10 F. I don’t buy it. ALL PCNA Kakis of the Japanese type – including all PCNA varieties in Korea – come ultimately from Japan. I’m not ruling out the possibility that there are some relatively cold hardy astringent types from China. But that’s not Tam Kam.
p.s. in full disclosure, I also have Sheng (PCA) and Goboshi (PVNA) in the ground, hoping that they will endure.
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Welcome @NCOutdoorsman. It sounds like you’ve given them a good start. Personally I would just make sure they get watered during any dry spells at this point and see how they do. Good luck!
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@Ruben, I’m not sure if that is KSDS from the pictures, but it is usually a good chance that is the issue if the rootstock is surviving and sending up new growth. If the rootstock dies as well, then that is probably something different.
The way they suddenly died back is the way KSDS often works, at least in my experience. You can often see small black lines (along the leaf veins I think, but don’t have one to look at to check right now - thanks goodness!) in the leaves when leaves die and fall off.
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I’m curious what the source was for the seedlings. It does seem like a lot of people have had Saijo get hit, so perhaps there is something with that variety, but I wonder if some sources of seedlings might be in areas with the pathogen for KSDS in nearby native trees and could come already infected. There is something insidious about KSDS in that it often seems to happen after the tree has been growing well for a while, but maybe some vendors are more likely to have KSDS in their rootstock.
For instance, I’m 2 for 2 with trees having KSDS from Edible Landscaping, but so far none of the many more trees I’ve put on MDC roots have shown any issues. Just curious and possibly looking for patterns or causes that don’t exist. Sure wish we knew more about it to be able to do something instead of just wait to see what gets hit.
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Thanks @zendog , yeah I’m not sure what it is, they just started to defoliate. I didn’t see no black lines on the leaves like you described.
Not sure if the rootstock still alive, I haven’t checked but I will later on.
Have you tasted Lehman’s delight?
I’m pretty sure that these seedlings came from Missouri Extension. I’ve had only one other Kaki tree die from what looks like KSDS, a Cardinal from OGW. But I’ve also lost a graft of Miss Kim 3 years after grafting to a DV tree (supposedly Prok) purchased from Stark Brothers. Of course, I can’t be sure that the scion wood wasn’t infected when I received it.
My understanding is that it ripens late, which is a deal-killer for me.
That’s a real shame; I’d be tempted to try it anyway.
The same thing happened to me. I grafted JT-02 onto an established Fuyu and the entire Fuyu defoliated leaving twisted branches at the ends. The JT-02 grafts are doing great though while the rest of the entire tree is gone.
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I finally got rid of my potted Tam Kams. They took -4°F previous to last winter and died down about halfway, then this last winter we hit -12°F and they were toast (I definitely let them die). 25 gallon fabric pots, sitting on a somewhat unprotected south facing slope. They only suffered a little dieback when I’ve had them against our home mulched in and sheltered from wind, even down to -11°F. We’re 6a.
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Can you grow them in a pot overwintered?
My wife’s late grandmother was named Kam Tam. So it would be sentimentally nice to grow one. But the warmest I can do is near a house in 6b in ground. I do move my citrus etc in and out of basement.
That’s good data. Thanks. My take away is that an unprotected Tam Kam suffers severe (e.g., 50%) damage at -4 F and death at -12 F. But this damage can be mitigated with protection.
That seems consistent with my Ichi Ki Kei Jiro, which suffered the loss of all 1-2 year old wood after two nights at -5 and -7 F but has been undamaged at 0 to -3 F.
So round numbers, I’m still going with the following for the hardiest PCNA Kakis, such as IKKJ and Tam Kam: Ok at 0 F, partial top kill at -5 F, death at -10 F. So in Z6 or even Z7A, planting a PCNA Kaki is playing Russian Roulette.
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@Robert @zendog not sure what is the cause for trees dying just like that? Started by defoliating itself and end up with twisted dry branches.
I check the rootstock and still green so this wasn’t a case for SPDS.
What it sucks is that I lost a variety that it was so unique and special.
I also lost other varieties (few trees due to the Sannina uroceriformis, the persimmon borer!
As @kohinoor_0612 pointed out.
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I find it odd that the entire kaki part went down in flames while the JT-02 grafts are doing great. Mine looks just like your pics with the twisted branches. I lost Tam Kam two years ago to the same thing. Was fine one day and dead the next. The rootstock is fine though sending up new shoots. The one common theme with the two I lost is I grafted some of the branches on both the same year they died. And they were only a few years old.
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Ditto.
I fertilized my persimmons heavily with nitrogen for the first time this year and have been rewarded with more growth and more flower set.
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