Second Picture of Catawba Treasure native persimmon


#1

I had to share this one too, just to try to convey the heavenly texture of it.


#2

Never heard of that one …
Where did it originate from ?
Looks nice !
Welcome to the group.


#3

It’s one they found themselves, potentially a new wild variety:


#4

I would eat it. :yum:


#5

Yes indeed, a wild one, tucked in a cedar hedgerow along a fence line near my farm in York County SC. I have to believe that the Native Catawba tribe was selecting for fruit quality so I’m naming it after them, unless it gets me in trouble…


#6

Inferring from your picture’s filename, do these have a late August ripening time? If you have big and early, you’re already on to something. Add in extra tasty and you have a real winner.


#7

Yep, they start ripening in late August. They were finished producing this year by the time we had our first real frost in late October. We had a very dry summer, which is typical, but the persimmons around here don’t seem to notice droughts or adverse weather. The taste of this one is exceptional; it loses its astringency at least bit of softness and at that point is mild, vanilla-like, and plenty sweet. Once it softens fully it’s a quite sweet, smooth, vanilla-like pudding.


#8

Chance is there any chance that tree is a seedling of a local Early Golden persimmon tree? Early Golden has been used a lot in persimmon breeding because of many of the traits you described in your local persimmon.


#9

Looks like a run of the mill wild persimmon, maybe a little larger. I found some similar size on young trees without much fruit this year. What’s the difference between it and others? Are you trying to sell them or just offering scion?


#10

I suppose it’s a possibility but I tend to doubt it. I’m in a small town surrounded by very old farms. Although most of the farms around me are stocker cattle, dairy cattle, cotton, wheat, and soy, most of the land around here has remained in the same family for generations. This is an old, conservative area with historic war sites and scenic byways. I don’t think the population of this town has ever passed 300. Most people here consider persimmons a bad pasture weed and bush hog them. I could be wrong but I just don’t see any Persimmon selection going on around here except what the natives probably did.


#11

There are vast differences between Persimmon varieties, both wild and cultivated. Consistency/texture (mealy/gritty/dry or custard/jelly/pudding or juicy/watery). Flavor (spicy, musky, vanilla, banana, pumpkin). Color (yellow, orange, deep red). Astringency (bitter when hard or not, bitter when soft or not). Frost requirement to ripen (does it need frost to lose astringency?) Ripening time (early, mid, late season?). Skin texture (does the skin hang around in your mouth like plastic or is it easily chewable?) Seed to flesh ratio (sure maybe it’s a big Persimmon but are the seeds huge too?)

There are loads of qualities to consider when selecting persimmons. I’ve had a great variety of wild ones and a dozen or more cultivated/improved ones, and I can tell you that I’ve only ever grafted one variety onto rootstock at my farm, and that’s this Catawba Treasure. However, I plan to graft a few other varieties for season extension since this one ripens early and finishes by late October/early November.


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#14

That is a impressive persimmon.
A good find for sure.
Looks to be as big as, or bigger than …prok - Yates -early golden, and others …
At least twice the size of the natives here .
Is it seeded where you are ?
Do you have 60 or 90 chromosome there ?


#15

If it is seeded there, would that mean that it is most likely a 60 chromosome variety? There aren’t too many improved 60 chromosome varieties.


#16

I may have to try it when you start selling it. I’ve always thought they all tasted similar to me but maybe I need to try one from another area.


#17

This one is extra large for sure, and it’s a wild seedling although it’s cloning itself via suckers. We have both 60 and 90 chromosome types here, which is nice since the 90’s start dropping early and 60’s start around/after the first frost. The 60’s usually aren’t worth eating unless you’re just trying to get your wild probiotic in or if you find loads at once; they’re just mealy, dry, and they hang onto the tree forever. The 90’s aren’t necessarily common here but they definitely taste better; the only negative with them usually is that they explode into jelly puddle when they fall. There’s one of my farm that’s a yellow-orange one and it tastes like a spicy banana but it’s hard to find one that’s not exploded and full of leaf, dirt, and grass. This Catawba Treasure seems remarkable in that a great majority fall at perfect ripeness and maintain an almost marketable appearance, very little damage usually. If I had to bet then I’d say this is a 90 but that’s just based on what people tell me about the 90’s (larger, earlier, etc).

Borer, I’d be happy to sell you some fruits this year. Just a few to try or a few pounds.


#18

If you’re getting suckers, you may be able to propagate own-root trees. From my research, it sounds like the only real chance to root persimmon cuttings is to take them from root suckers.


#19

My thoughts exactly !
Or … More precisely , root cuttings from the ortet


#20

Yeah, root cuttings for sure! I’ve also read etiolation works, but all the researchers that I’ve read doing that use it to get plants that they then use to take cuttings from root suckers. So, having roots to begin with puts you ahead of the game.