I’ve not much liked acidic type nectarines or peaches in the past, too acidic for my taste. But tried a couple new ones this yr. These are new trees first crop. Both Raspberry Red and Double Delight are too acidic again for me as grown this yr. Both very sweet but way too acidic. Both were grown with high to excessive water deficit due to under watering and/or small root system.
So my hypothesis is that water deficit concentrates sugar, acid, and flavor. With the low acid nectarines this can bring out flavors I really like. Of course lacking control treatments or quantitative measures of acids or flavors I could be wrong.
I’ve also gotten the idea that nectarines might be more amenable to water deficit effects due to their smooth skin that might lose more water than peaches. Maybe water loss thru the skin draws more sugar into the fruit. I’ve measured high 20s brix many times in nectarines but never in peaches.
The brix levels I like best are 22-28. But down to 18 can be good in the best nectarines. Above 28 generally means excessive water deficit and can result in off flavors. A refractometer can be a good tool for water management. One reason I’d like to see more brix reports, and they are coming in slowly.
fruitnut,
I was waiting for your report on the Raspberry Red.Any brix readings?I didn’t have a refractometer when mine ripened for the first time last year.
I have a Honey Kist Nectarine,with one fruit growing this year.That is probably more on the sugar side. Brady
Here I’m growing in ground but I can limit water as by mid-summer it is dry around here. So with late fruiting types I may be able to concentrate sugars. At least some years.
As all know, I look for the acid types. The above mentioned though might not work here. Arctic Glo and Indian Free though do work well here, and are high acid.
My concern is if I don’t give them enough water. I have seen them droop badly from lack of water. i often forget about watering my trees. Too busy worried about my tomatoes! I’m also finding I’m not fond of the citation rootstock. Seems to be a canker magnet here. All peaches and nectarines will be on Lovell from now on. See canker on this chart, confirms, what I have been observing. http://www.fowlernurseries.com/Rootstocks.htm
This is one reason for posting this opinion. I think many are over watering, applying too much fertilizer, and concerned about other factors that don’t much affect fruit quality. In my experience water has a large effect at least on certain fruits. My trees on Citation can have shriveled fruit with only a little leaf loss. So even this supposedly drought sensitive root can be weaned off water to good effect. I’ve done it for yrs. Let the tree dry out and see what happens. I haven’t killed a tree yet and only modest leaf loss at worst.
I agree in regards to the low acid white fleshed peaches. But have managed to get the brix up to 22+ on a yellow fleshed low acid peach and found them superb.
I’m thinking CA homeowners will have a lot of high brix fruit this yr. Areas west of Rockies do have opportunities to test water as a factor in fruit quality.
OK, well all of mine have fruit, and I will let them dry. If Mother Nature let’s them. We are still getting spring rains Indian Free is late season so maybe I can brix that one up.
I’ll add one caveat for your benefit. A rain after dry weather can split all sorts of fruit. I’ve had it big time on Asian pears outside but also on stone fruits even in my greenhouse. Not much inside now that I have things figured out.
These techniques are much better suited to areas like CA and other points west where summer rains are rare or absent.
I’m used to the splitting with cherries. We never get much rain in summer. Cherries splitting has not been a major problem. Probably why we produce so many cherries here. I just worry about hurting the trees, they always need water in the summer. I will still have to water, I will limit the amount though. The ground cracks badly around here too.
The things to watch for regarding water stress on trees are primarily leaf drop and tip “firing” ie stoppage of growth. Peaches and nectarine are pretty dry before they stop growing. But basically if the trees aren’t dropping leaves they aren’t too dry. At least under my conditions.
Thanks for the tip, it may be too wet here some years, but worth trying if conditions are favorable. This year so far it has been raining a lot. Although the lush growth of everything seems to quickly suck the water up. It rained maybe an inch last weekend, but in 24 hours no signs of any moisture. It’s really tough to figure out when to water, not trees but vegetables. I use raised beds, it helps keep them from being over watered. Although I find myself watering daily by mid-summer.
I also hate low acid yellow peaches I’ve tried, and I doubt elevated brix would help. I tasted Flavorburst last year and for me it was a spitter, although it tasted like brix was quite high. Nothing in the Adams description warned of it being low acid- it was just supposed to be extraordinarily good.
In the end you can’t always get around the subjectivity involved in taste evaluation.
Great article and a question that needs exploration. The entitled, removed-from-the-farm market-driven need for bigger = better has been such a particularly American consumerism mentality (post WWII maybe? Embracing ‘bigger’ after the lean years of war and Depression?) that it going to take a lot of re-education to change. I think it applies to ‘ugly’ fruit as well as what may in truth be properly sized fruit. People want the vague sense of ‘organic’ with no sense of what that really means in terms of growing utility OR end result. They also want purdy and purrfect. It becomes an unattainable goal at some point.
I know as a new fruit grower I know I treated my trees too much like houseplants. Thanks to reading wisdom from the collected group here (back in GW days too) I changed that thinking.
The cracking post concentrating that you note FN seems to make sense in the osmotic process. If you step a fruit to low water content with the cells and the intracellular spaces by whatever degrees but then infuse free water the uptake will be proportional to that higher attained density because of the sugar’s latent osmotic draw pressure. And that effect will be the more severe the more concentrated the fruit is. The same sort of process that can cause cerebral edema in very hydrosensitive brain cells, which is why we give hypertonic (3%) saline or hyperosmolar sugar (Mannitol) IV to many patients with brain injuries because of the risk of edema (and thus herniation, ie: in neurosurgical terms, well, ‘cracking’.)
So I should think a rush of free water later - and the later the water inflow, the more extreme the result - in the ripening cycle will easily reverse whatever elevated brix numbers you achieve. Earlier in the cycle the water shouldn’t change things as much, as the sugars and other osmotic solids aren’t going to exert as much pressure with less concentration. But late rain on well concentrated fruit … poof.
Absolutely, it could be stopped by membranes somewhere in the system, Drew. Can’t say I’m anywhere near a pro myself at plant anatomy; furthest thing! Was thinking along the lines of the passive way water does get to seep just about everyplace. Mostly where you don’t want it.
I know most think my ideas mute unless one has a greenhouse or dry climate. That may be true but thought I’d post about an outdoor grown success. Saved one Honey Fire nectarine from the coons and now, hard to believe, fox. Small but superb tasting at 25.6 brix. The low acid, yellow fleshed Honey series nectarines are my richest tasting fruits.
I think the technique can be used outside, at least with trees in pots. I can move any trees in pots out of the rain. I have total control of moisture. So this information can be used just about anywhere.
All my cacti have overhead protection, yet full sun.
That comment is one of the rare times that you’ve been wrong. For the past couple of weeks I’ve been eating some of the most intensely delicious, fragrant, and flavorful peaches I’ve ever experienced. Why? Well, I’m certain the flavor is mostly because you have shared your observations and I’ve taken them to heart. I was just thinking of making a post to thank several of you for the part you’ve played in allowing me to have that experience. So, thank you and please keep sharing your observations. They make a difference!
