What hurts mine here are late freezes. Seedlings that can wake up just a few days later can miss that. -30F during the winter has been less of a determining factor although this isn’t a zone 4.
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That is also a factor in Buzz’s program. Early ripening and late to wake up!
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Have you noticed that Morris Burton wakes up a little later than others? I saw someone making a recommendation of MB seedlings as a good choice for rootstock and I can’t remember if that was part of the reason they thought they would be more likely to be a good choice.
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I’m not sure how the rootstock influences the variety on top. A couple of years in a row, I had some rootstock that got zapped by late freezes in May just as they were waking up. I think we had some sort of ridiculous very hard freeze around May 12. I know the first year, I only grafted the ones that didn’t get zapped. The next year, I said screw it, cut off the zapped tops, and grafted any of the right size… with the thinking that they would push out the second attempt anyway. That worked fine too. I had so many seedlings that I didn’t keep track of which was which… and that might have been a good idea.
In another area, I directed seed holes with maybe 8 seeds per holes arranged around the perimeter of the hole. When we got late freezes that zapped some of them, either they didn’t grow as well, or I flat out culled them back to the one or two strongest ones. Of course, I might have simply been favoring males (as the stronger growers). That was probably a better way to go, but direct seeding was sort of a pain so I haven’t done that for a few years.
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These looked to good to pass up.
Scion Wood: Persimmons (American)
Variation: Breadroll 425-17 *NC
Quantity: 1
Total: $6.00
Variation: DEC Wannabe 3 *NC
Quantity: 1
Total: $6.00
Scion Wood: Persimmons (American)
Variation: DEC Double-Ziptie (Row 12 5 from N) *NC
Quantity: 1
Total: $6.00
Scion Wood: Persimmons (American)
Variation: DEC Goliath *C
Quantity: 1
Total: $6.00
Scion Wood: Persimmons (American)
Variation: Ennis Seedless *C
Quantity: 1
Total: $6.00
Scion Wood: Persimmons (American)
Variation: DEC King Crimson *NC
Quantity: 1
Total: $6.00
Scion Wood: Persimmons (American)
Variation: F-90 Fruiting Male *NC
Quantity: 1
Total: $6.00
Scion Wood: Persimmons (American)
Variation: Hershey Blue *NC
Quantity: 1
Total: $6.00
Scion Wood: Persimmons (American)
Variation: Valeene Queen *C
Quantity: 1
Total: $6.00
Scion Wood: Persimmons (American)
Variation: Meyer Seedless *C
Quantity: 1
Total: $6.00
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Some of the old threads are worth reading
Found these descriptions from this website Grafted Persimmons — Future Forest Plants listed above
American Persimmon:
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Downingtown Center (aka Downingtown Middle) – one of the best persimmon from John Hershey’s farm, and my favorite. Late Aug-October
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Ruby – large-fruited, late season persimmon
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McKenzie Corner – one of the best persimmons from John Hershey’s farm. Sept-October
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McKenzie Middle – one of the best persimmons from John Hershey’s farm. Large fruit. Ripens October-November.
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Early Golden – the classic American persimmon selection from Indiana circa 1890.
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Claypool C120 – namesake fruit of breeder James Claypool, of Elmo, Illinois.
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Dollywood D128 – Popular James Claypool selection
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Early Jewel H-118 – Very early, large fruited selection from the breeding work of James Claypool. Very productive tree.
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H63A – One of the most popular James Claypool selections. Large fruit with excellent flavor.
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H94A – James Claypool selection
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J53A – James Claypool selection
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K44 – James Claypool selection
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K44A – James Claypool selection
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DEC Money Maker – from the breeding work of Donald E. Compton (DEC) in southern Indiana. Excellent fruit.
Here is a video on american hold hardy improved types
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So I get a quite good description from Darren about Hershey’s Blue. It’s 99,99% true that we talk about ‘Buhrman’ and it’s 90n cause it had some seeds in the original orchard.
“It’s a very strange individual in that it has a yellow and blue skin and very flat wafer-like seeds. I assume it is a 90 chromosome simply because it has plenty of seeds…”
Next is ‘Ami’ , the mother tree is located near a shushi restaurant Ami in Bloomington IN, Darren’s friend highly recommend it. You could saw the original plant at google maps it’s probably from late 90’s.
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Im looking forward to growing these! They sound like great varities! Are they pretty small or large persimmons? I think you will find this thread below interesting regarding those F series males that fruit.
Do male flowers produce fruit in persimmons?
Anyone have much information on G-78?
There are no information about ‘Ami’ if we talk about any characteristics.
Buhrmann/Hershey’s Blue was describes by L.Gerardi as giving medium/large fruits. To compare it with common varieties, for him EG have large fruits and Garretson medium sized.
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I use Szukis to pollinate other varieties, as it is mostly male. I decided to do this, because I read Claypool’s original writings, and the male pollen was just as important as the female in determining fruit quality. Szukis does pollinate my other persimmon trees.
John S
PDX OR
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have you grown out seedlings sired by Szukis? Lehman was saying that the pollen is genetically “female” and would therefore produce “female” offspring. Again, I have no real world verification of this, but its a known phenomenon in other genera
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I haven’t grown out the seedlings. That’s a great question. I don’t have a science degree, so some of these questions may be a bit above my understanding. I would think that male flowers would have male pollen. I get a lot of fruit. I also have female flowers, and therefore fruit on the same tree.
Anyway, my favorites: Garretson and H-118/Early Jewell/“Prairie Star”. Their flavor is a bit different, but both are delicious and distinctive. Garretson fruited more last year after giving it extra biochar. I gave H-118 extra biochar and mulch as well this year, partly because the South and Midwest have wet summers and we have dry ones. Szukis before biochar was basically inedible and had almost no fruit. Afterwards, it’s delicious and 7 times more productive.
I like Ruby. It tastes good, just a bit behind the first two, and the fruit is large. I didn’t plant it here in PNWet because we have limited heat and I wanted my fruit to ripen. Szukis is also just behind them, mainly because the fruit is quite small.
I like Early GOlden, but it’s IMHO just not quite as tasty as the others. I’m keeping the tree though.
I love this thread. Great info, people.
John S
PDX OR
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wow! how much did you apply and what was your method? Surface application? Did you “charge” it with anything, like compost or some nutrient source?
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And what is your soil? From what I’ve read, biochar works by binding nutrients so they cannot leach away. Lots of other substances can perform the same function, including humus. So I’m curious specifically whether your soil was deficient in organic matter before the application of biochar. Thx.
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Yes, biochar creates a bank of tiny hotel rooms for different microbes, so the soil can create the best recipe it wants to with the exudates that the tree/bush is putting out.
Clay loamish. I dig the spade down all around the tree at the drip line and jimmy it back and forth, then fill that crevasse with biochar. It has already been crushed and inoculated. I charge it with a mix of ww flour, ag lime, compost, worm compost, rotten wood, rotten fruit, seaweed, and urine.
https://permies.com/f/190/biochar
John S
PDX OR
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Id still love to see those Slate articles!
My soil was actually very high in organic matter before the biochar. I had it tested a few years ago. I really lay on the wood chips every year, and because it is a mature food forest, the diverse leaf litter adds to the organic matter. Yes, I think the holding of the nutrients may be one of the biggest factors. Apparently the surface area of crushed biochar is amazing, and it stays as it is in the soil for centuries. It also sequesters carbon that way. We get consistent drizzle here between Thanksgiving and April Fool’s Day, which is an inactive dormant period, so they can leach out without it. One of the reasons I started with persimmons and pie cherries with the biochar is because we have naturally acidic soils, and those two species prefer neutral to alkaline soils. They have had the biggest, most notable quick improvements among my fruit trees due to the biochar.
JohN S
PDX OR
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where did you source youre biochar? or did you make it? if so, did you use a double barrel retort or something more sophisticated?
I make my biochar. TLUD 55 gallon barrel with a chimney. Much simpler than a retort.
John S
PDX OR
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Id love to see pics of your setup. Im a big TLUD fan myself. Always wanted to make one, and have bought a couple of the little stainless chinese ones for cooking at camp. Theyre fun and amazing. What kind of lifespan do you get out of a drum? Also, how do you stop the reaction after pyrolysis is complete? If theres oxygen, the charcoal burns up too!