“latitude” + “heat with humidity” + “soil in south FL”
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So pawpaw can like or dislike heat+humidity based on soil type? I thought they preferred alot of heat+humidity regardless of any other factor.
BTW beautiful orchard!
I didn’t say that, but perhaps someone else did.
My attempts at stimulating rooting in Asimina triloba, via Cytokinin catalysts, has resulting in BLOOMING on multiple cultivars,
even in air laying in Tucson in August!
No roots yet, but stimulating blooming on Asimina triloba, even during heat, is rather easy.
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It’s a Magnoliid
What’s this have to do with Bill Whitman’s trial?
Responding to:
“Most of what you have read about needed chill hours in pawpaws is simply wrong. There are a lot of myths that have grown up about pawpaws that are simply not fact. There has long been a myth that you can’t grow pawpaws in zone 9 at all no matter how many chill hours you get.”
- Most Annonaceae don’t require chill hours.
- The Asimina triloba did a summer bloom, no chill.
- Pawpaw can tolerate temperature 20 degrees hotter than Florida.
- Whitman’s difficulties could have been due to unknown factors, rather than the assumed factors listed.
- Asimina triloba’s extreme resistance to rooting from branches even under what is normally perfect conditions is evidence that the species is not understood very well.
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No but my question is why didn’t he succeed?
Your reply
“latitude” + “heat with humidity” + “soil in south FL”
Heat with humidity is not a problem in Jacksonville Fl , where humidity rivals new Orleans every year on top stop for humidity. Miami has almost same humidity on daily averages as Seattle and Portland. Pawpaw grows well in Seattle and Portland so we know humidity without the heat is not a problem. Like i said i can see soil types and latitude playing a part not heat with humidity. Am i missing something? My theory is just like long island gets to much wind for pawpaw,so does south Florida. One hurricane could destroy an orchard.
But it could be “latitude” + “heat with humidity” + “soil in south FL” like you said. I guess my brain cant grasp what your saying.
I agree
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@FloridaFrugivoreFami,
Asimina triloba reminds me of truffles in some ways, which have declined by over 99% over the last 100 years due to reduction of habitat, despite their astronomical value & claimed scientific knowledge about the species.
Why, because with all we know, we can’t synthetically reproduce their habitat & grow them commercially!
The inability to clone, air layer, tissue culture, cutting propagate, etc, screams that we don’t understand their preferred rooting environment.
That most likely is the reason for Bill Whitman’s failure, not the temperature, nor the humidity.
My hypothesis is that his high knowledge level was what helped contribute to his failure by causing him to do something to insure the plants success which unwittingly resulted in the pawpaw’s demise.
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I would have to say I agree! Maybe soil down there but not heat and humidity. Makes no sense for a tree that thrives in Kentucky to not like heat and humidity , unless its at the right latitude and soil type I guess.The smartest people I know, usually know the least. Too much time reading someone elses work without real world experience. For years scientists told us the smallest particle in the universe was an atom. Now we find out the closer you zoom in the farther apart it gets until theres nothing but oscillating light. Everything is really just light vibrating at a different frequency giving the illusion of individuality. So anything is possible! Im growing things here in 8b that everyone and everbook says is pretty much impossible!
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They are doing well in Tucson, even though 114 days per year above 100°F.
8% to 14% humidity most of the year, but 70% during summer monsoons.
The pawpaw here actually look far healthier than KSU.
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WOW thats amazing and proof that trial and error is much better what a book or a rumor on the internet says! Thank you for sharing. I would’ve never imagined they could thrive in Tucson!
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Super interesting. I’m considering getting 2 trees or maybe a single multi-graft for my backyard orchard in Southern California.
What varieties have you seen work well for you in your weather and have they flowered or set fruit yet?
Thanks!
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In Tucson with shade cloth, more than 2 dozen different cultivars thrive, as long a rootstock is healthy & vigorous.
Grafted trees:
Shenandoah is most vigorous & highest blooming in the heat.
Sunflower 2nd, (David Lee McCray #10) 3rd, Mango 4th, Tallahatchie 5th, Susquehanna 6th, McCray (#9 & 22) next in vigor but not blooming yet, (NC1, Nyomi’s Delicious, Maria’s Joy, JBG, Potomac) equivalent vigor, (Benny Favorite & Wabash) having issues but are on a weaker rootstock.
Don’t have data on seedlings of different cultivars yet.
Wow thank you for this! When I see info like this, I’m SORELY tempted to go buy a dozen trees. Ugh. If only space, money, and time were not an issue 
Love this. I think I might go with a bunch from your top list to start with.
One (maybe crazy) idea I was thinking of, was to follow Neal Peterson’s plant spacing from his first trial orchard. IIRC he had trees planted as close to 3ft apart with about 12ft between rows. I was thinking of doing a planting of maybe 2-4 trees, a few feet apart in a row.
Or maybe a better approach is to plant a single of the most vigorous varieties (grafted) and then make it a 4-in-one or more via more grafting.
Do you shade them every summer or just until they reach a certain size/height? I’m assuming it’s the latter since they can get big. Or maybe you are keeping them small.
Best,
MB
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The grafted trees are 11 years old & shaded late May to late September.
Getting sun on branches in September is critical of prebud blossom formation for the following spring.
I have decided on 18" spacing of seedlings with 6ft between rows.
Growing trees as east/west hedges, with just barely enough room to walk between hedge rows.
There will eventually be wind breaks & upper canopy trees.
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Thanks - makes a lot of sense! Appreciate all the advice and details.
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A well known grower in my area of the country, Ron Powell, told me that you can plant 3 trees in one hole.
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What precentage of shade cloth do you use? I’m in Central Florida and we have pretty intense sun most of the year, and I put 40% around my pawpaw and was wondering if that was enough. It seems to be enough for my angustifolia, and my parvifloras are in shade, but my triloba has been slow coming out of dormancy and I’ve been wondering if i should up the shade count.
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70% is what has been used in the past in Tucson, from late May to late September, only.
Full sun in spring, fall & winter.
Sun on the nodes of branches is important for prebuds in fall & spring blossoming.
This year will be different with about 80% reduction, over a 60ft diameter area, rather than 75% over a 20ft diameter area.
There is surrounding trees to maintain humidity & act as wind breaks, as this is desert.
In Florida maximizing air flow will probably be very important.
I’m concerned about the high levels of Calcium, Boron, Chloride & Iron in some Florida soils, creating issues for Asimina triloba.
Along rivers in western Florida they would probably thrive.