I buyed it, but I got a small tree that I kept in a pot for now. I think I will wait with puting it in the ground until it gets bigger to be on the safe side. But I am happy to hear that Dithmar still says so positive things about this variety!
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Mine arrived very small too and is still small. I will put it in the ground this year I think. Did you get Kassandra too? Mine came even smaller and died that spring.
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btw whats the opinion about Sestronka (NB-21). I don’t see too much talked about it. Cliff said a few years ago if i wanted American flavor but wanted larger fruit that can pick it early in the hard stage like an Asian then this is a good one to go for.
I think I may have seen its extremely non-productive in a post somewhere on here. Is that true?
There’s more newer hybrids for me to graft (like Zima khurma (NB-02), Kasandra, Mikkusu kaki Hybrid (JT-02), Chuchupaka, Dr Kazas Hybrid, Prok x Hokkaido Male, Sofie’s Gift, even maybe old hybrid like Rosseyanka might still be better?) …
So wondering if I should graft on top of it or give it away for a friend to try.
EDIT:
Here was that 1 post i found saying someone only got 1 fruit:
Here is another one, maybe same person giving review of the 1 fruit:
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My notes say that it is no more hardy than Kaki. I don’t grow it. It’d be quoting someone else.
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Yeh I saw that as well. I don’t mind as I’m in zone 7a/b Philadelphia.
Anything else thats cold-hardy I’m sending to a few friends in colder zones.
Have room for maybe a couple more trees so I want the best hybrid :), one that has American ‘in-your-face butterscotch-caramel’ flavors but larger and can pick in the hard stage.
No subtle flavors/notes, need that punch-in-your-face flavor.
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Taste is subjective, of course, but Kasandra may fit the bill. It is strongly flavored.
JT-02 may disappoint you. It’s good but not a punch int he face. It seemed to me like a modestly more intense PCNA Kaki.
Those are the only two hybrids I grow currently. I’ve got scions of Nikita’s Gift but I think it may ripen too late here. Sofie’s Gift is next on my wish list.
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Here are some of new Kaki and hybrid persimmons that crossed with the cold hardy male Cheong Pyong. Hopefully the Kaki seedlings will be more cold hardy than it’s parents then back cross them with Jerry Lehman cold hardy hybrid male 400-5.
Tony
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Nikita’s gift is your best bet.
I also liked JT02 quite a bit. Kasandra is good too.
In your zone 7, there will be zero issues ripening NG.
I’m adding a ton of new varieties this year. Haven’t yet started grafting due to other demands on my time.
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I grow Sestronka, JT-02, and Nikita’s Gift (all scionwood from Cliff England), and Sestronka is my favorite for flavor. It tastes the most like an American persimmon. All three have been about the same in terms of production.
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Nice! Got any pics of its fruit so can see its size? (or can describe its size?)
Can you pick it in the hard-phase and let it ripen? I assume its astringent and have to wait till it softens.
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From Oct 2023 in this same thread:
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You’re right, it’s astringent and needs to be eaten when it softens.i haven’t tried picking the fruit and ripening them off the tree, but it has worked for me with JT-02.
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How do you start a seed?
I have 4.
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I left them in the fridge for about a month then use miracle growth potting mix in a cup with the seed buried about 1/2 inch near the sunny window. They will sprout in bout 3 weeks.
Tony
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This might be a stupid question, and I probably should’ve asked before buying cuttings - but if I have Prok, is Kassandra a redundancy? I’ve heard they both ripen early and are about the same size. Do they have comparable taste? I know Kassandra isn’t as cold hardy, but other than that, would anyone be able to let me know some of the differences? Thanks!
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I have a tree labeled Prok, but the fruit is very bad. Given that Prok is sometimes well-liked, I’m assuming that my tree is mislabeled. I do, however, also have other Americans that are very good – Barbra’s Blush, H63A, Dollywood. And I also have Kasandra.
Forced to choose, I would take Kasandra. Some reasons:
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The taste is more complex. I have an uneducated palate, but IMO there’s more of the Asian caramel flavor. But many people prefer the American flavor.
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The fruit holds on the tree. You have to cut the stem to harvest. IMO, that’s a benefit because the ground is covered with feces from deer and rodents. Most Americans break off at the calyx, plopping onto the ground with a hole where the stem used to be. H63A is an exception.
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The fruit is usually unblemished. The skin is firm and shiny, protecting against nicks that admit fungus. The skin on a ripe American can be very thin. Again, there are exceptions.
Size is approximately the same. Relative ripening depends on the American variety. BB and H63A are earlier than Kasandra; Dollywood seems roughly the same to slightly later. Other varieties that I don’t grow are even later. The authentic Prok is supposed to be earlier.
My “Prok” does not lose astringency easily. But the authentic Prok may do better. My other Americans do better – they are non-astringent when fully ripe. Same for Kasandra.
For you, the show-stopper may be ripening time. I’m in new Z7A (formerly border 6B/7A) and Kasandra – which I would not classify as “early” – just manages to ripen before serious cold sets in. Depending on where you are in Z5B, it may not have a long enough growing season to ripen for you. There is the option of picking it not-quite-ripe and finishing it indoors but that’s a pain. For this reason, you might focus on early-ripening Americans. I’d recommend H63A, which is early-ripening, has durable (not tough) skin, and hangs on the tree when ripe. And it tastes good.
Here’s a good bit of my Kasandra harvest, 11/06/23.
And some Americans picked 10/14/23. These continued for weeks after.
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They are different enough that if you have space you should try both. Many of us have a whole bunch of varieties, so having 2 is nothing, lol. As @jrd51 noted, Kassandra may ripen too late for you, but if you get them to mostly color before hard frosts you can ripen them inside. Even though most ripen their American persimmons on the tree, I actually pick and ripen my Prok inside and they do fine as well which keeps them out of the squirrels’ stomachs since they don’t bother them while still astringent.
You mention “cuttings” so I’ll just add that I hope you are planning to graft those, not try to root them. Persimmons are all but impossible to root from cuttings.
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Thanks @jrd51 & @zendog Thank you for the details! I do have some extra space, so I think I’ll give Kassandra a try based on your thoughts. My two biggest worries are hardiness and duration of my season. If does die back, I’ll just try again. We got down well below -20 degrees this winter and I was surprised my 1 year Rosseyanka seems totally fine. Which I think is similarly hardy to Kassandra, but later ripening…
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Yeah, Ive had Rosseyanka here too at my 5b location with no issue for ~5 years. Im not sure if Kasandra will ripen, but Im fairly convinced pure hardiness is not an issue. Ripening time is definitely a limiting factor though.
You must be nowhere near me if you got down below -20 F this winter. We didn’t even see sub-zero, a first in the nearly 20 yrs that Ive lived here.
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Still learning about persimmons: are there any good hybrid persimmons that hang on the tree longer? I’m planning to plan some in zone 5b but in a place where I only am perhaps once a week, so having things hang on tree longer and be harvested when ripe from tree rather than from ground could be useful.
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