2022 cider at 39thparallel orchard

[clarkinks]

Nothing better than cider. @39thparallel and i ran off a couple of batches today using some of his equipment. He has lots of different apples so we came up with some fantastic blends. Really great tasting cider. Looking forward to making some more ! We used many types of apples. Redfield seems to be a great tasting red fleshed apple. Ambrosia, fuji, roxbury russet and many others were part of the blends. We ran a batch with aronia as well.

This is normal on my way home. Got to watch out for animals while driving around here.

[JohnnyRoger]

Nothing better indeed. I am wondering how you and @39thparallel blended your apples(?) Was it all purely by taste, or did you take measurements of acidity and sugar to begin, and then make adjustments?

I am at a Montana Zone3 lacation, and was excited to see my Ambrosia bench-grafts growing well here and on your list for cider. I am trialing it here, because I love the taste fresh (from grocer), and they also make excellent baked apples.

I didn’t have as much success growing the Redfield, as it seemed to grow very slowly…and I am not sure what became of it. I never got to taste one, but I read they are not very good for fresh eating, but they make a very good addition to cider blends. Did you bite into one and taste it fresh, or did you only drink the juice?

Looks like a great day of fun, for sure! I have always been happy and had good success with the scionwood I have purchased from @39thparallel. I can count on getting healthy looking, good-sized scion pieces, when ordering from them.

[39thparallel]

@JohnnyRoger

I take PH and sugar readings before fermentation. My single variety Roxbury Russet was 1.073 and 3.45Ph! The Redfield, Ambrosia and Suncrisp blend and an initial gravity 1.057 and PH 3.61. Split it in half and treated half campden tablets and omitted sulfites from the other batch to see if they are really necessary with quality fresh cider.

I am at the research stage with (Hard) Cider. the goal is to identify the best apples here for High Acidity. Tannins and Aromatics . When you factor in productivity, disease resistance and juice rendered, the list will be short. You want significate sugar content but, that is the very least rare attribute in a cider apple. I then hope to graft over my cider orchard to those varieties so, I can easily produce awesome single variety and blends with no amendments. The problem is that they very attributes needed in great cider have been selectively bred out of most named varieties in the US.

Red Fleshed apples definitely impart the tannic quality and the idea of red hued cider is awesome. Redfield while productive, renderers little juice when pressed and is not the most intensely colored of the refreshed apples. I will continue to experiment with red fleshed apples in cider. So far, the color I have been able to add has not been valuable when scaled up.

Ambrosia is a choice table apple when grown well. Let us know how it does there.

[JohnnyRoger]

Great info, thanks! I am a retired 64 y/o hobby orchard guy, also experimenting with cider and variety blending. Sounds like the Redfield was no great loss for me, perhaps. I have other red-fleshed varieties already (Almata, Giant Russian Crab), and penty of tannic varieties as well. I purchased some Golden Nugget scionwood from you which is growing well here, so far, and I am happy with the growth rate of Ambrosia as well.

Have you blended any pears in with your apples yet? I have a few varieties growing, but I bought some cases at the grocery for blending last year and…it was kind of wierd. I had Bosc, SG 1.058, PH 4.6, Bartlet, SG 1.049, PH 4.3, and D’Anjou, Sg 1.052, PH 4.3. I basically blended the pears and apples 50/50, plus or minus a little, and so my blended juice blends ended up with PH numbers around 4.0 roughly. I added malic acid powder in small test beakers and tasted the same juice(s) as I reduced the PH in small increments, PH 3.8, 3.6, 3.4, 3.2… In doing so, I discovered I like the taste best around PH 3.2, prior to fermentation. It seems to me the PH may come up a little by the time fermentation is complete and the cider has spent a few months in secondary fermentation. I should be tasting some of that soon for the holiday season, and I think I have one very tasty blend I have set aside for special occasion.

Thanks again for the sugar and PH numbers on the Roxbury Russett. I have one or two growing, but I would not say they are “thriving” just yet anyway.

Cheers!

[clarkinks]

@JohnnyRoger @39thparallel

You both already know pears dont really juice readily. Pears typically turn into more of a sauce than a juice. Some people have patience and allow the juice to drip out. There are people who make pear nectar by adding water or ice. Apple and pears compliment each other because pears are very sweet. Apples are much juicier than pears so like with ice or water the apple juice thins the pear juice. Pears in Kansas and in many locations when juiced have the consistency of pudding. In a really wet location naturally they are full of water so its like adding water or ice. We need to try a batch of pears with a bladder type juicer and see if extracting the juice is easier. The grinders that chop pears more than liquify them seem to work better.

Canning Homemade Pear Juice The Wisconsin Vegetable Gardener Extra 20

A steam juicer can be used as well but there again the steam is likely the extra needed water

Making Pear Juice Using A Juice Steamer

Many pear juice recipes are really pear nectar recips because of the added water or ice.

Homemade Pear Juice

[ncguire]

Here are some tips I’ve read for pressing pears. Haven’t tried them myself though, still waiting for my pear trees to give me enough fruit. This can also apply to some apple varieties that are especially sloppy after grinding.

• Save the dry pomace from apples and mix in with the pear pomace for a better consistency for pressing.

• Instead of dry pomace, add rice hulls for more effective pressing

• Freeze the pears, thaw completely, and a clear juice will squeeze out when pressed whole.

• If desired, press the pears before they’re too ripe and are still a bit firm.

[txpanhandle1]

How many gallons of apple juice a year do you do with that press?

[clarkinks]

@txpanhandle1

@39thparallel and i were taking it pretty easy but stayed after it so we just ran a few hours and pressed 24 gallons that day roughly. We started around 1 and finished by 4 or 5. We took time to eat in there. It was yielding right around 12 gallons a batch. Some apples are dryer than others so dont be surprised if your numbers are slightly different.

[39thparallel]

That’s an awesome photo!. I will probably try making a pure perry cider again, but as you said it ssems hard to do without amendments. I have yet to see a good crop off the perry pears I planted. I will see what high Acid pears @clarkinks can supply. I need to take a PH reading off St Nickolas next year. It seemed very sharp.

[39thparallel]

We will figure it out. Between the tow of us, we have an insane amount of pears to experiment with.

[clarkinks]

@39thparallel

Yes we have an excess and we can always change some varities over to whatever we want or need.

[JohnnyRoger]

Well, I have only pressed pears a couple times, but I am sure you do not want them to be completely ripe, ready for eating fresh out of hand. They are too soft at that point, and will turn to a puree or mush when grinding, and it will squeeze between the holes in the mesh strainer, slowing the process considerably, and making pressing difficult. To prevent that problem, I think you need to grind the pears when still hard, before they would be ready for fresh eating.

With perry pears, most are probably not best for fresh eating anyway, right?

[clarkinks]

@JohnnyRoger

Yes some pears will be better for that than others for sure. Some as mentioned like Saint Nicolas may be just the thing for perry. Mostly i eat overdone sweet boring pears or course tasteless pears when trying something new. Saint Nicolas pear is not that. It hinted at offending my taste buds it was so tart. It was a little like a lemon or quince and yet i took another bite as if to clarify what i tasted. It was not what i expected in a pear. I’ m not sure it’s perfect for perry but it could be blended with others i think to be incredible. It has merit for many things because that flavor is rare in the pear world. The very rare Saint Nicolas pear

[JohnnyRoger]

In my efforts to find perry pears for my Zone 3/4 location, I Bench-grafted a few this year, but with limited success. I have a neighbor a couple doors downstream with Patten, and Ure pear trees, and he and I partnered up to make 220 bench grafts this year (200 apple, 20 pear).

He had no luck with his pear tree grafts (0/10), and I was only a little better (7/14). I won’t speculate on the reasons for our failures, but only suggest they are more difficult than apples. Anyway, the I did manage to have success with Romania, Butt, Henre Huffcap, Bella di Guigno, from Renaissance Orchards: SCIONWOOD STORE – Online Store

But I was most excited to have success with 3 Brandy pear bench-grafts. Brandy was hard to find, but I got some from Autumn Stoscheck of Eve’s Cidery, who seems to be the source for the nurseries selling Brandy trees. Here is a description of Brandy from Cummin’s:
A mid-season heirloom pear with medium acid and low tannin.

Brandy is a compact tree, smaller and with a tighter crotch angle than most perry trees. This cultivar is vigorous, sturdy, and precocious, producing in two to three years. It tends to biennialism, and Autumn Stoscheck of Eve’s Cidery reports that it exhibits greater blight tolerance, if not resistance, than most perry varieties. USDA data suggests that Brandy is also highly resistant to scab, mildew, and rust. This pear is used exclusively for cider; it is not suitible for fresh eating.

Brandy is among a number of perry pears that are named after alcoholic spirits, possibly to indicate their potency. Among the cider varieties that were used in England in the 1800s, Brandy has remained a popular choice for perry makers ever since. This particular tree hails from West Gloucestershire. Its small turbinate (sharply decreasing cone shaped) fruit yields a dark, aromatic, mild vintage. It is classified as medium sharp and should be milled within four weeks after harvest. (From Brooks and Olmo: juice acidity 0.44, tannins 0.12, specific gravity 1.069.)

[don1357]

@JohnnyRoger; for your zone 3 try Kerr, a fantastic crab apple that while not red fleshed drops ruby red juice that tastes like cranberry. Franklin cider crab apple also should be hardy, a veritable tannins, acids, and sugars bomb. It could be one of the most hardy bitter sharp apples around.

[Sparty]

I usually press pears when they are not quite ripe. I get a similar yield as apples. I have a source for perry pears, but find crabapples added to standard pears can make a very good perry. You need a good percentage of crabapples that make you pucker. Here’s a shot of perry pressing this year. Only did a small batch because I had so many grapes to press and ferment.

[JohnnyRoger]

Both of your suggested varieties, Kerr, and Franklin Cider, are excellent. Everybody in the area raves about Kerr, and a local nurseryman says it is his favorite. The Franklin Cider is also one that is growing well for me here. I assume you are talking about the Patented Franklin sold by Cummin’s Nursery? I bought two of them on B-118, and I transplanted one 3 year old tree this spring to the cemetery by my wife’s gravesite. The soil at my house (about six miles away), is high PH, about 8.3, and there at the cemetery it has some hard clay soils, so I was rather worried the transplant would fail. It is the end of the year now, though, and it survived just fine. I have found through trials that the B-118 rootstock is what is best for my location.

There are no other apple trees allowed at the cemetery (so as not to attract too many deer), and so next spring I will be grafting another variety onto the tree at the cemetery for polination.

So, yes, I have been trialing rootstock and apple varieties a few years, since 2019, and next year plan on planting the first trees in my hobby orchard. After updating my list of varieties, I see five which are only on my older exhisting trees, and not on a root–likely because of a graft failure. The rest are on 1, 2, and 3 year old bench grafts planted a foot apart in my fenced garden. Here is a list of the varieties I currently have:
2022 FALL LIST OF APPLE & PEAR VARIETIES.doc (29 KB)
My plan is to have an orchard of about 40 trees, but having about 80 to 100 varieties on those trees.

[Rosdonald]

@JohnnyRoger

My plan is to have an orchard of about 40 trees, but having about 80 to 100 varieties on those trees.

That’s my orchard in a nutshell.

[JohnnyRoger]

Included in that forty tree hobby orchard number, I have two peach, Reliance and Contender, two plums, Toka and Waneta, and four to six pear tree. The peaches are semi-dwarf, from Stark Bros, not sure which rootstock (I forget, and can’t find the notes). The plums I bench-grafted onto Krymysk 1 dwarf roots, and the pears are on both OHxF97 rootstock, and Pyrus ussuriensis rootstock. For apples, I have 15 varieties on Baccata, 11 varieties on Ranetka, and the rest all on B-118, which seems to thrive in my gravelly, high PH soil.

Presently, I have about 100 each, one and two year old trees, and a dozen or so three year olds. And so next year, I will begin transplanting from the garden bed (where they are currently one foot apart), into the orchard–which is not yet prepared. Hard finding help these days–even when paying cash!

[don1357]

I only have one acre to play with, and a good chunk is forested Plus I always like to see what else I can get growing well here, last count it was over 70 distinct varieties of edible things sucking up sun here and there. i need to do a new inventory…

@JohnnyRoger; I see you have Prairie Magic! That’s one of my favorite apples ever. I recognize a bunch of the usual suspects you find up here in Alaska. The biggest difference is that you can get away with later season apples, anything that ripens even in the first week of October is pushing their luck.

Speaking of luck, how is Kingston Black doing on your chilly neck of the woods? When does it ripen compared to the Franklin crab apples?