Clarkinks permaculture versus Geoff Lawton permaculture methods

clarkinks · October 24, 2020, 3:07pm

Geoff Lawton has grown permaculture gardens and fruits in some of the worst conditions in the world. Some of the methods he uses are similar to the ones i used here in Kansas. I want to acknowledge and bring attention to what his group is doing. I’m impressed with his work.

His work has been mentioned in the past Organic agroforest in Portugal - #17 by JohnS

Systems i use are similar in many ways here in Kansas. Once the land has been repaired it can be very productive and food can even be grown organically in many cases Blackberries by the gallons

Soil is very important to our harvest

Some crops require a couple of fugicide sprays per year but nothing else Carmine Jewell Cherry Yields increasing with age

Some crops such as pears may require one spray of copper a year and other pears require no spray at all. The several links below are some of my work i have done on pear fruit production in Kansas.

Just like geoff i once used a system that made use of chickens in a very similar way to what he did. I highly encourage you to look at some of my older projects like this one Clarkinks older fruit and vegetable growing Projects in Kansas

Autumn berry have done well here in Kansas and have not spread Planning on a big autumn olive harvest

Things like mulberry truly are no work fruit Mulberries no work fruit

I adapt to my environment matching fruit trees to what i was told were impossible fruit growing conditions Wild callery pear rootstocks. Flexibility and adaptation allowed me to suceed at growing fruit where others had failed.

Geoff even uses ponds in much the same way i do getting higher amounts of protein from smaller areas of land. He’s better at it https://growingfruit.org/t/ponds-are-a-great-investment/7033 . Ponds like mine are very beneficial to the soil and allow me to grow things i should not be able to like pawpaw which can be grown spray free https://growingfruit.org/t/fishing-on-4th-of-july-weekend-how-is-your-weekend/6470

Growers such as @39th parallel who is an enthusiatic grower of jujubes and persimmons and other spray free crops in Kansas frequently comes to visit my farm. His quest is to use what others have done in Kansas and Missouri and other places. He will then improve upon our accomplishments and avoid making our same mistakes. His methods are impressive. He is learning from his own mistakes on many things eg. Apples because like so many of us he had no teacher on varities he should grow. We all were often working on limited information and making the best of the situation. His farm is a constant work in progress

Non traditional orchard methods can be highly effective

Im a strong believer in the recycling of organic wastes

Geoff and i disagree on the use of fire at times which i use to control certain pests or weeds. I’m not saying i’m necessarily right either. Fire - How to eliminate Weed seeds & harmful insect eggs

My new orchards are thriving and i have several in remote locations on my property. I’ve corrected massive erosion problems that were once devastating to this property but to many with untrained eyes things may look a bit over grown which i must admit is how i like it An orchard in the rough

Wild callery and bet pear tree rootstocks are tolerant and resistant to most things Kansas might have to offer. We have droughts, strong winds, heavy rains, poor soils, extreme heat and cold. Eventually i will graft them over or top work them to food type pear trees Top working Callery Pears weather permitting

We all constantly improve as new information and plants become available Extending the blackberry season

Auburn · October 24, 2020, 4:13pm

Thanks for posting. I always enjoy reading about what your doing and why your doing the things you do.

clarkinks · October 24, 2020, 4:52pm

@Auburn
Bill perhaps what we do will benefit many people now and later on, lets hope so. We wont always be around for them and they wont have another teacher. Unfortunately so much valuable information has been lost through the years. My grandmother could name every plant and its use and that information died with her. The older generations had knowledge that seemed ignorant and savage to some but i always listened to them and learned. People die every day for lack of knowledge and ignorance multiplies. Some people i learned from were not just English or German but of diverse backgrounds eg. Amish and others were native American. I do not believe i will live to see a world with less us and them and more we but i can dream of that world. We will never get the pleasure of living in a world where all books that could be found were not burned in the dark ages . We would have known what the ancients left behind for us to learn from. As it was my knowledge was all that made me suceed where others before me failed and i taught as much as i could to as many people as i could get to listen.

ctduckhunter · October 24, 2020, 5:06pm

Great job Clark, always look forward to reading everything you write on here. Sure appreciate how you and many others on this forum are willing to share everything you have learned. You have been a great help to me with my quest to grow good fruit. Thanks!

clarkinks · October 24, 2020, 6:03pm

@ctduckhunter
Clint,
I’m always glad to help. It makes me happy to hear my experience helps others. None of us have all the answers though speaking from experience the quality of my life was drastically improved by knowledge.

JohnS · October 29, 2020, 2:39am

Clark,
I have been impressed by your work for many years. I think you know that I use a lot of permaculture methods too. I’'m pretty sure I will never get close to doing as much as you do, but I learn a lot from your posts and I appreciate what you’re doing.
John S
PDX OR

clarkinks · October 31, 2020, 1:30pm

@JohnS we only have so much time to live in this world. When i die i plan to be laughing all the way to the grave because i left behind things for generations to come. I enjoy your posts very much. Our long term goals are similar we want a better world for others than what we had. Don’t worry its coming. Solar power is better. Wind power is getting better. Batteries are getting better. Agriculture is better. Electric cars are getting better. Computers are making some things better. Commercial Agriculture is changing to spray as they need to instead of to prevent problems. We are winning long term in all ways. Most changes are for the better. Lets hope my grandpas heirloom blackberries are something people appreciate for what they are. They are a very long term soil rejuvinator. Knowledge is the secret to everything.

clarkinks · November 7, 2020, 10:33pm

Autumn berries caused a correction of the soil in 3-7 years. I grew them in areas that were challenging to grow anything.

The heirloom Blackberry i grow is a serious soil corrector given the same amount of time 3-7years.
The best part is not the fruit like many think its all the organic material we are putting back in the soil 6-8 feet or more deep. Roots fix nitrogen, die and leave large amounts of organic material in the ground. Sometimes i return to a pure clay soil and find it black and deepening where i planted these bushes. The leaves alone that fall every year create soil. The bushes attract large numbers of birds which leave large amounts of rich guano. Not all guano is equal. “bird guano usually refers to the desiccated droppings of seabirds. Thanks to the fish diet of these birds , their guano is a highly effective fertilize”. In Kansas they are still good to have around because they eat large amounts of insects eg. Grasshoppers. Note that the soil is no longer clay that is orange under those bushes its brown again.

clarkinks · November 8, 2020, 6:09pm

You can see the soil problems are being corrected completely using trees and shrubs and grasses but it takes time.

disc4tw · November 9, 2020, 3:37am

@clarkinks are the autumn berries you are discussing with this post Elaeagnus umbellata? Where I am in western Pennsylvania it is considered an invasive and grows allll over many of the reclaimed coal mining sites I work near. It is certainly an indication of poor quality soil and it is always a dead giveaway that the area has been mined when Autumn Olive is the only “tree” thriving and surviving. Although they are horrible to try and remove from the wild areas to try and make room for natives to gain a foothold, they are nitrogen fixers as you said. It’s interesting how mother nature finds a way to fix herself with the resources available, even if perceived as unconventional by us human stewards.

JohnS · November 14, 2020, 9:04pm

Yes, I’ve heard that they are invasive in summer rain and humidity areas. That’s not here in PNW either, so I grow them. Every male should eat them. They have 17 times as much lycopene as tomatoes. If you live to be 85, you will have prostate problems. Autumn olive fixes that as well as the nitrogen in your soil.
John S
PDX OR

clarkinks · November 15, 2020, 2:12am

Native soil did not have alot left to give me when I came here but with some good care it gives me all i want and more. The soil was exposed from when we installed an electric line. It’s obvious the good soil is gone at this location. Once deep rich top soil was lost due to errosion in the dirty thirties and many years of poor farming practices. Thankfully for me the clay is actually very rich but without compost or organic material it’s considered to be of little value

Notice the changes taking place. Look at the base of that apple tree. With natures help im correcting the problem. The roots are pulling nutrients from deep within the soil where farmers could not reach it. When the leaves fall the rich nutrients are now breaking down as organic material rich in nurients at the top of the ground. Grasses and leaves are left behind to fertilize and decompose which draws more worms and other beneficial microbes and fungi. The system needed help but has been set back on the right path again now.

When i first moved here the soil was mostly that orange color clay with a thin layer of loam in places not over a few inches to 1 foot thick. The old timers laughed when i said i would grow fruit. They tried and had some limited success. The occasional pear on an old former home site here and there was all that was left. Those ancient pears though few inspired me to keep trying. My family taught me to observe nature and i noticed the wild seedling flowering pears had little trouble growing in difficult conditions. If we are not successful its because we lack the knowledge we need to have. Take care of the land and the land will take care of you as shown in the link below and by the pictures from 2019. Here comes the 2019 pear harvest!

MikeC · November 24, 2020, 6:02am

Great information here Clarkinks. I am also been impressed with all the great information you provide here with your fruit growing experience. I always look forward to seeing the information you post.

JohnS · December 1, 2020, 5:34pm

Your prairie should have good deep native grasses that can help that deep soil have all those microbes in it. I love it when people say, “You can’t do that here”, and then you go out and do it successfully.
John S
PDX OR

candyflipper · May 3, 2021, 7:17pm

This guy from Australia went even further, check it out.

clarkinks · October 2, 2021, 4:32pm

I’m finding once the soil problems have been corrected my chemical needs are greatly reduced or eliminated. Many hardships we suffer can be attributed to lack of information. People have a tendency to tell nature what to do. I listen to nature and except constructive criticism learning from my mistakes. Permaculture is us being one step closer to self sufficiency.

JohnS · October 12, 2021, 3:42pm

Yes, I find that too, Clark. I have been picking up little practices. A little biodynamic step here, some permaculture practices there. It keeps improving and making more food. I’ve been able to haul a lot of food off to the church for the poor this year. I’m also giving away fruit trees to interested acquaintances. I’ve been working a lot on biochar these past few years and it’s made a huge difference. Semi-retiring has given me more time to complete more activities, both here in the orchard and outside as well.
John S
PDX OR

clarkinks · October 31, 2021, 1:06am

Gave away another couple hundred pears. The land responds generously to a good keeper of the land.

JohnS · October 31, 2021, 3:40pm

Yes! My hope is that by giving away high quality produce and plants, more people will be interested in growing their own, and will see how much better their health is and how much better they feel when they are connected to nature and to the Earth.
John S
PDX OR

clarkinks · November 18, 2021, 12:25am

The pear crop was very generous like much of the other fruit crops this year and I’m still picking. @39thparallel is a great friend he’s the type of person who always has new great ideas of spray free things to try. Just when you think you have it all he finds a new pear, blackberry, persimmon, pawpaw, or jujube variety to add to the orchard! Autumn olives and goumi I believe will increase in popularity in years to come.