The original Geneva Red, as noted by John Gordon who would have had much experience with it from many years ago, was noted as “Geneva Red is high flavor late-ripe persimmon”. Of course he was far north, but I would assume with his experience and close ties with Geneva, he knew his early from his late.
@Mikatani lives in Belgium. Cool summers. Mild winters.
@snowflake - According to Cliff England Geneva Red is very early.
2 Likes
Yes, there seem to be some differences for some varieties as to whether they are early or late, so ymmv. I have a variety that was early for me last year, which Cliff reports as late. And, there have also been mixups of varieties although I’m not saying that’s the case here… only reporting what Gordon had said. Was Gordon the first to grow Geneva Red? Maybe. Idk.
1 Like
This is one of the first ones I’ve grown, Matt.
John S
PDX OR
4 Likes
I had some really bad luck last year with early golden. I lost 100% of my 9 grafts over the winter. The persimmons i had not planned to grow H118 and A33 did great. The varities i grafted late did the best as they were clearly the most cold hardy. This taught me a lot about named persimmon varities. Have a fruiting seedling as well growing in my micro climate. That may be why the named types did well since they are growing in the same preferred location.
7 Likes
I’m not sure what you mean. Normally you graft to any living persimmon and things are good as long as the scions are parafilmed and the buds below are removed. Were you not able to graft at prime time last year? I think you said you were pretty busy at that time. For my location, prime time is May 24. It’s fairly predictable year to year. For you, a bit warmer, i would assume maybe a week earlier?
1 Like
What i mean is when i grafted early golden all my grafts grew out several feet and hardened off but died this winter. Had no problems with 2 of the grafts i thought i might have grafted to late. It is actually good news to know these 2 are very cold hardy here. That was not at all the results i expected.
2 Likes
Oh gotcha. Early golden definitely burns back for me every year. But with several feet of growth, I would think you would have been fine.
1 Like
Look at a couple of the ones i mentioned above. Had 100% of the grafts lived and no die back on these varieties. Look closely you will see the unions. Part of the parafilm is still hanging on.
2 Likes
Comptons creations belong to this thread but rated a thread of their own DEC - DONALD EUGENE COMPTON PERSIMMON Varities
someone on here sent me a assortment of 30 D.E.C’s seeds all have sprouted and are growing well as well as 20 Dunstan chestnuts and 5 butternuts.
5 Likes
Back in the 1980’s I grew golden supreme from Nolin River nursery as well as many others at the time. I was never impressed with it and eventually cut it down. It was no where near as good in my NC climate as early golden, ruby, and yates/juhl.
2 Likes
What is your list of favorites?
1 Like
I have not tried many of the newer varieties though I have planted some such as prok, valeene beauty, and elmo. I had a dollywood but it died. Of the older varieties I have not found one I like the flavor of better than early golden. Yates/juhl is also very good as is ruby. Ruby is very large for a native type and ripens later in my climate. All 3 of these are very productive. Yates/juhl is slightly larger fruited than early golden and ruby is the largest of the 3. I also like the flavor of meader a lot but it can be weak wooded and is bad about breaking in storms.
4 Likes
I’m not going back to read all 500+ responses in this thread… I may have made this comment before - and maybe more than once. I’m old.
Jerry Lehman related that year-in/year-out, at persimmon tasting events at his and Jim Claypool’s orchards, that Early Golden was almost always the top pick, for flavor, of the majority of folks taste-testing persimmons. My JCEG (Jim Claypool Early Golden - directly procured from the ortet(?)) is still young… I’m looking forward to possibly getting fruits from it next year.
13 Likes
I’ve read a gazillion taste tests and I just haven’t walked away with the impression that Early Golden is always (or even often) the winner. Consider just one example above, where Early Golden is compared to many others.
I will concede that many well-liked varieties have Early Golden ancestry. Examples include H63A, I-94). No doubt Early Golden is an ideal persimmon parent – good quality fruit plus some male flowers. But I have to ask why Claypool would have crossed it so many times, testing the offspring, if EG was unequivocally the best. Anyway, that’s a moot point. The real point is that tests testers on this forum don’t seem to rank EG above numerous other names.
1 Like
I’m not 100% sure I have this correct, but I thought I read somewhere that Early Golden was used so frequently for breeding since it is a good female tree that also produces male flowers- which could be used to polinate other trees of interest- resulting in female seedlings to evaluate. Thus, not wasting time growing male trees out to flowering age.
Hopefully someone can confirm that statement. Consider it unreliable information. 
3 Likes
Yes, I think that’s right. That’s what I meant by “a good female tree that also produces male flowers.”
Probably most (maybe all) of the pollen donors used by Claypool (and others) meet these criteria. After all, you need pollen; and it improves your odds if you can get pollen from a tree that produces good fruit.
This leads me to a question that Ive been dying to ask: Has anyone tried breeding improved Americans using pure males, other than by open pollination. I can imagine that there must be some pure males out there that would produce daughters that would produce great fruit. I can readily imagine someone saying, “You gotta try XYZ as a pollen donor for your speculative crosses. XYZ produces no fruit itself, but its daughters produce fruit that has amazing!”
2 Likes
Most years that’s been my opinion, too, and I’ve had 100-46, Prok, WS-8-10, H63A, Elmo, H118, Ruby, Yates… fruiting for comparison.
I hope you’ll come visit around peak native persimmon season this year. I have a neighbor with one of those golf cart/UTV things that I might be able to borrow to drive you around with. But if you can’t come here, I’ll try to bring some to you.
9 Likes
Your lack of genetics background is showing. An old but very valid saying is to cross your best with your best and sometimes the offspring will be better than the best. Another way of looking at it is to pick two varieties with complementary traits to cross in hopes of combining best traits from each. Consider a cross of Prok with Early Golden. Maybe we could come up with a very good flavored 2.5 inch diameter non-astringent American persimmon.
1 Like